With the economy the way it is they would have lost an incredible amount of money. You think you know how the business works? Really? Your a blogger. They have many people who went to school for years to make the decisions they make. That's why they make the big bucks.

And besides they gave the world a phone that was Iphone 3g on steroids and it cost the exact same. That's amazing no matter what you say.

-Link

who needs video when you have a flip? enjoy carrying your phone and your flip around together.

voice control a gimmick, only good in car? true, however it will be great in the, scrolling through contacts is no fun. plus using the headset mic to choose music while relacing by the pool will be sweet...no more suntan lotion on the screen!

I know you were forced to come up with some cons for your point counter-point feature, but come on.

I bought the iPhone 2G when it first came out for $599 and signed a 2-year contract. Then I upgraded to the iPhone 3G when it first came out for $299 and extended my contract for another 2 years. I now only have 1 year left on my contract. I was interested in getting the iPhone 3G[S] so I plugged in my information on the "Buy iPhone" feature on Apple's website and it tells me that I either have to wait til December 'til I'm eligible for a discounted upgrade. Otherwise it's $599 for me to buy the iPhone 3G[S] on June 19th. I only have a single line on my account.

What if:

On June 19th, I add a second line to my account for $9.99 per month + $30 data service plan so that I can get the iPhone 3G[S] for $299. Once the iPhone 3G[S] is activated, I call ATT and tell them I dropped the iPhone 3G[S] in the water and is no longer working. I then ask them to cancel the iPhone 3G[S] data plan ($30.00) and put the sim card on a cheap phone which I won't use. I then take the sim card from my original iPhone 3G (line 1) and stick it in the iPhone 3G[S].

Yes, it does involve lying, and yes it is going to cost me an extra $9.99 per month. BUT I will now have two lines. Line 1 will be eligible for upgrade June 2010 > Line 2 will be eligible for upgrade June 2011 > Line 1 will be eligible for upgrade June 2012 > Line 2 will be eligible for upgrade June 2013 and so on and so forth. Which means I can upgrade to a new iPhone every summer (if a new iPhone comes out every summer). What do you guys think? Could this work?

what's most frustrating is the 3G is fully capable of doing all the same things but apple won't let it because its trying to sell the new product.

Bottom line is if ur not a fan boy and have a 3G you really don't have much of a reason to upgrade.

The OS on the iphone even with 3.0 isn't much better.

I have a 2G phone that is an fantastic multi-functional paperweight as of June 19th. Are your used 3G iPhones really worth much more???

Another thing, iPhone OS 3.0 is giving me just about everything else I've wanted, albeit I'll have to wait 'til summer for my tethering and MMS (thanks again, you d-bags at AT&T).

So, for now, I think I'll stick with my trusty 3G. Besides, at the current rate of things, when I'm able to upgrade my phone who knows what I'll get. crosses fingers for rubber matte backing, front-facing camera, 4G, and wider screen

Yeah, I too was hoping for a better price, but after thinking about it, I did sell my original iPhone last year just after 3G launch day for $470, and bought the new one for $299. So I know I can sell my current phone for at least $300, thereby making my "upgrade price" really $199.

My real complaint with AT&T (aside from the extra fees for text messaging, and the inability to provide MMS on launch day), is the SORRY coverage. More bars where? Not where I live! My coverage is terrible. I have reported it numerous times, but it doesn't help.

dipshit

or you could do what I am and sell your Iphone 3g for $600 and upgrade to another Iphone 3g for $99. You make $500 and can do what you want with it. I guess theoretically you could sell your Iphone 3g again and make another $500. Then get a GS if you really want it that bad off contract...

I wonder if Microsoft along with this Zune HD are working on a tegra based ZPhone HD. I really like the Zune platform and the software. Very solid stuff.

Some interesting things could happen in 2010 ans 2011.

I think 3gs is just to hold us off until they release a more legit iphone, with its own name(not 3gs 2 or something), next year. even the commercial says it "it looks the same". i can picture an oled screen and a slimmer body next year when zune hd comes out and apple sees how many people want hd.

3.0 is gonna feel like all us 3g owners got a brand new phone. I see no reason to go out of my way to upgrade to the 3gs this year.

My point was that everyone is making out like this is some evil plan exclusive to AT&T. It's not. I've been working in the cellular industry for over ten years. ALL carriers operate this way. It doesn't matter how much the phone costs to make, or who is making how many dollars off the sale. Everyone knows that when you buy a subsidized phone, you will be paying full price to replace that phone if you decide not to honor the full length of the contract. It's just a fact of life.

Verizon customers who have the Storm will face the same issue when the Storm II is released. People who bot the HTC Touch Diamond went thru the same thing with the Diamond II. People who both Treo 600s faced the same problems when the 650s came out. If you want to replace your phone before the contract expires, you pay full price.

This is really simple. Even with all the new hardware features the UI is still broken and you cannot multi-task. One app at a time is unacceptable in 2009. Most of the feature you'll get in OS 3.0 other than voiceover and compass I will get in my old 3g.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerryCurve8300

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution-Data_Optimized

Apologies if you feel flamed, but I do find your incessant whining, hectoring and lecturing of others tiresome.

I don't think Apple released much in the way of info on the phone portion. (Other than the new 7.2megahoozies not yet deployed).

Until the teardown postings start appearing on web sites we can't even be certain who's chip set it used. Once those articles appear you can research the chip set on line to see if it has better specs.

So for you, holding off for a week or four may be the best idea.

short answer: Nobody knows except Apple.

Bored with this discussion, now. Upgrade now, upgrade later, skip a generation, switch to something else… Make your decision and get over yourselves.

Please don't log on to a discussion site and then flame people for discussing.

I'm upgrading, but I can understand why some folks will want to wait and can't get excited by some of the new feature.

To people like Truth: if you think there's something better out there, go get it. You won't be missed.

Yes, you've nailed it.

However, rather than your condescending tone, I suggest this is a perfectly valid reason not to upgrade.

Its not enough, given the cost penalty.

I'm sure, since you drive Next Year's Porsche every single year, that these meager and marginally useful changes will have you upgrading on release day.

But not me, and not most.

Did you here me: Not MOST.

Face it, you are in the geeky, well moneyed minority. 'SGood to be you.

Regardless if you think the iPhone 3GS is worth it or not, AT&T will still sell more devices as a result.

The current OS is still broken even with the 3.0 update (which really should have been called 2.3).

Exactly so. This release does not warrant a full version level increment. The only system wide OS level features upgraded are Notifications and Copy/Paste.

The Camera/Video application is a significant software change, but thats not the OS, thats an application. Ditto for in-app purchase.

Its a point release, much of which is aimed at increasing sales at the App store, rather self serving on Apple's part.

Quote:

I just don’t understand what all the fuss is about AT&T not allowing current 3G owners to upgrade at the subsidized price. I don’t know of a single carrier out there who would allow someone to do that if their contract has not run out.

Its because we can do the math.

The upgrade penalty is almost pure profit for AT&T.

The initial price you pay for the phone almost covers the total cost of the phone that Apple gets from ATT and still allows Apple a healthy profit.

So right away, the idea that ATT is Subsidizing the cost of the phone is total nonsense. Its a balf faced lie.

Under a True Subsidy, after your up-front payment for the device, some percentage of your monthly charge would go to paying off ATT's cost for the initial purchase price from Apple.

Yet we know what it costs apple to build the iPhone 3g. Its around 176 bucks. Within a week or two we will know what it costs to build a 3Gs.

I think everyone who wants to see continued development of the iPhone platform is willing to see Apple take 100% profit on this device. It keeps them interested in new devices in the future.

So ATT's bulk purchasing ability gets them the iPhone for LESS (way less) than $325. (These numbers are estimated in a lot of financial analyst reports - google for those).

If you have your phone for 3 months you have paid ALL of ATT's cost for the phone, plus you've paid for all your minutes, and that extra $30 pays for ALL of your data usage. Each segment, equipment, minutes, data, has profit cranked in. There are no loss leaders in the cell industry.

So the supposed subsidy that ATT is collecting over the life of the contract represents profit to ATT.

(It is still rumored that Apple gets a slight cut of this continuing revenue stream to justify free upgrades to software. There are conflicting reports in the financial press as to whether this is still true).

So if your device is Paid off in short order, its not subsidy that is collected over the life of the contract, its ATT profit. Pure Profit.

We would all be willing to pay something toward keeping ATT solvent and having enough money to keep upgrading their network (cough).

But we know that the 200 dollar upgrade penalty (on top of the new-device initial payment) is just a money grab and double dipping.

If you stay with your 3G for another year, ATT gets X dollars from these so called subsidy, all of which is above and beyond the initial cost of the phone.

If you upgrade, ATT demands that X, plus an additional X for the new phone.

Yet they are only giving you one Phone's worth of service.

Further if you sell your old phone, and that person signs up for service, they will start collecting that money again. Triple Dipping! Do you get your penalty back? No. Of course not.

Apple is not blameless here. They are perfectly happy to see ATT do this. They could not possibly meet the demand for 17 million new iPhones all at once if everybody upgraded. (Plus, there are those rumored continued payments to Apple over the course of the contract. Depending on the size of those (if they exist) they might account for almost all of the 200 dollar penalty, in which case ATT is taking it on the chin for Apple's sins of greed).

If ALL we had to do was sign up for another two year contract, Buy a new phone, and pay a pro-rated ETF, based on the cost of the phone, we would be far more willing to do so than paying 600+ dollars to upgrade.

Patience is a virtue. You should wait especially for OS 4.0. Read the above article and you will see why. The current OS is still broken even with the 3.0 update (which really should have been called 2.3).

Nope

Second: UI changes to go along with the full background processes. I don’t know what this will look like, but the Palm Pre is a great example of a UI that takes advantage of the phone’s multi-tasking features. With the number of applications iPhone users are downloading on a daily basis (800 million downloaded in just nine months!), the current system of home pages is broken. Given the new stuff Apple is introducing in OS 3.0 (search, MMS, Bluetooth support, advanced connectivity features, and more access to Apple’s own built-in apps), the signs point to the need for a forthcoming UI change that organizes all the information better for developers and consumers alike. For a company that toots its own horn on usability, elegance, and simplicity, this change is necessary and certain with OS 4.0. None of the three qualities I mentioned are addressed, let alone fixed, in OS 3.0—a definite disappointment for many others and me. Multi-tasking in a multi-touch environment relies heavily on an intuitive and simple-to-understand UI. It just makes sense that Apple would need to tackle the iPhone UI if it’s going to do background processing.

Neither of these feature sets I predict for OS 4.0 are simple to grasp or develop (heck, it took them until the third revision of the OS to introduce cut, copy, and paste!), but both should make their way into OS 4.0 in some form in the first quarter of 2010. Here’s to looking really far ahead!

http://news.worldofapple.com/archives/2009/03/27/iphone-os-40-anyone-anyone/

I guess reading is not your strong point. Where in anything I said was there anything at all saying I thought AT&T owed me or anyone anything.

All I said was it was not going to be a great biz move to charge far less to cancel your account at $175 less $5 per month for each month you had an account. That means about $115 to cancel your account right now for many iPhone 3G users as compared $218 PLUS another two year contract to stay loyal customers!

Maybe you can not figure this out, but many other people do! Since I have owned just about EVERY major smartphone I totally understand how the mobile industry works, in fact I work in the industry.

Still does not change the fact that many AT&T iPhone customers are NOT completely happy and this will not help. If AT&T were smart, they would discount the upgrade to at least match the cancellation fee!

But the thing is. I am not sure what direction Apple is heading in. It appears as if they want to make this device a gaming handheld. And I like the games but I don't like that direction, especially since there are no physical buttons. they are better as complements to the phone.

With that said QuickGold and a Jailbroken OS 3.0 will be fine until then. Actually I am still flirting with the idea of selling my current iphone unlocked on ebay and buying a new Iphone 3g for $99. I wanna make money.

The iPhone is an amazing phone. The upgrades are simply that...upgrades. While some of you may not think they are revolutionary, they are pretty substantial. Could there have been more, sure, but maybe there is more on the horizon for the 4G version that will completely BLOW our minds...much like the original iPhone did.

As for the At&T customers complaining about getting a deal on an upgrade...good luck and where do you get off thinking you are entitled to a subsidy? I am currently a Verizon customer and have a Blackberry. VZW doesn't offer a subsidy when they come out w/ a new BB. Car companies don't offer an upgrade deal for previous owners when a new upgraded version of particular model of car comes out. Get real. These companies are in the business to make $. Should they have good customer support and provide benefits to existing customers in good standing w/ the company, sure. But to continually offer a subsidy on a new phone, let people continue to extend their contracts just so they can get a better deal on a phone is lame. Where is the cut off. Some people would eventually have a 10 yr contract w/ AT&T if they kept going in that direction...where is the logic in that? So get over it. You are not entitled to anything more that the rest of us. You are all probably the same people that believes that the corporations like AIG deserve the bail out$.

As for the iPhone 3GS, I will be leaving VZ to come to AT&T and get the iPhone. It is a far superior phone compared to my BB Curve w/ VZ (which is not 3G). Is AT&T a perfect company, no, but neither is VZ. I would rather have a root canal @ the DMV than be in a VZ store.

I am a Mac user, and I support Apple and it's endeavors. The iPhone, regardless of version, is a revolutionary "smart" phone that blows the competition out of the water. Is it perfect, no but darn close. Show me one that is 100% perfect!

So 3 cheers for the iPhone 3G and 3GS...(thanks for letting me rant...thats the beauty of this site.)

But what are the chances of the device not selling well? I'm not sure I have the answer. I've been browsing lots of tech blogs and over 80% of current 3G owners have posted that they won't upgrade.

It will be interesting to see what happens come September.

I have a 3G. Will I be upgrading to the new 3Gs? No. I just can't afford it. However, I'm not going to blame AT&T. I'm not even going to say Apple didn't make a phone worthy of an upgrade. I think they did. I just can't afford it. Life will go on and next year I'll get a phone that will be even better. Before the 3Gs came out, I was perfectly happy with my 3G. That shouldn't change just because the new model is out.

Only those with deep pockets, way more music than they every ACTUALLY listen to, or a strong desire for video are eager to pay the upgrade price.

These hardware upgrades are NOT sufficient.

Speed improvements of ONLY 100% are not significant in computers.

The camera FINALLY gets Apple up to parity with many other phones.

The memory addition is beyond my needs, and I would be better served by a memory expansion slot.

I still can't change the battery without hacking open the phone.

And its still locked to ATT.

I'm skipping a generation.

Sorry Apple, being late to the party and bringing stale beer is not enough for me.

i agree for the most part with your post, especially about att. sucks to pay 30 dollars a month for a data plan when the nearest 3g is 150 miles away from me ! but verizon has 3g here...

Shame on AT&T. They treat the iPhone like a normal phone, but don't allow full functionality, insurance, or any other perks that normal AT&T customers get cough Slingbox on 3G cough. I live in an area where we still don't even have 3G (I get it at school, thank God). We are NOT treated like typical AT&T customers, and therefore should get huge discounts on upgrades, etc.

Apple is the type of company that could've launched video-cell-calling and made it something that every cell had in the next 5 years, but...I have a feeling that AT&T would never allow that, due to their cough awful cough network.

This is ridiculous.

To those complaining about upgrade eligibility, YOU made your choice when the 3G came out, as did I. the only reason you got subsidized pricing last year was the 1st gen phone was unsubsidized....DUH.

As I see it. Both articles are valid (for the most part) it just depends on whether or not you chose to buy the 3G last year

Could not have said it any better.

I think the problem is that everyone thinks this thing is a computer — in the end it’s just a cell phone

As a cell phone its even LESS appealing to upgrade. (You get essentially NOTHING new).

So your logic is flawed before you get out of your first paragraph.

Yes, Eric, the iPhone IS a computer. First and foremost. Its a pocket computer with a phone bolted on (and not a particularly good phone at that). The whole reason d'etre if the iPhone is to be a computer you always have with you.

And, NO, NASCAR is not a good analogy, where beating an opponent by 12 feet is just a good as 12 laps. Same money. The smartphone industry is a game of percentages and market share.

The PRE and G1 only exist because Apple wasn't doing enough, was far too paranoid and controlling. They will each take a percentage, an ever increasing percentage if Apple stops innovating and starts incrementing. Apple's slowness created the PRE and G1 just a surly as if they built them themselves.

But maybe I am not understanding the problem of the 3G upgraders. Is it because 3GS is being released 11 months from the day the 3G was released that you are being told it is an extra $200 (meaning it is 12 months before you can upgrade as noted in the cnet.com article jtz5 posted above) or is it 18 months before you can upgrade as I originally thought? Or is it variable based on your credit history/score?

I thought I understood this, but now I am a little confused. Thanks to anyone that can clarify this issue.

I'm getting it anyways , space is important.

The reason you upgrade a phone is to attract NEW customers and keep your current ones happy. You do not present minor upgrades until the rest of the cell phone market catches up. Like MANY others out there we will not be upgrading becuase of the lack of upgrades put into the iPhone 3GS. We will be better served with the new iPhone (hopefully next WWDC).

Glad to hear both sides. Interesting points made on both. Thank you!

I think that was the perfect justification for complacency.

I do like the new features, but for the ones temporeoly stuck in contracts we’re not missing much. This is were Iphone 2g owners upgrade and Iphone 3g owners stick it out for 3-6 months at the end of there contracts next year to get the 4th gen iphone. I’ve had mine about twelve months, i use a juice pack air to cover battery life, so that to me leaves little else. A faster iphone at the moment just doesn’t scream upgrade to existing 3G owners.

I am an original 2G 8GB owner. The 3G[s] is something for me to consider. But I have to look at a few factors, in addition to the new features presented at WWDC 2009:

If I upgrade, next year I will likely deal with the same contractual issues as our current 3G folks when a new iPhone may be launched.

AT&T does not offer 3G in the area where I live.

The “new” features are not exactly innovative. Lots of other phones already have a lot of this stuff. YES, THESE ARE IMPROVEMENTS to what was, but not innovation…unless I am missing some bigger picture.

AT&T was singled out as the one carrier to not be on board for tethering and most likely on board well after launch with MMS. That alone is dismal.

The current economy. (YES, THE PRICE IS LOWER FOR 2G owners than for 3g owners having to break contract, but I have to consider moving up to the new AT&T data plan.)If the iPhone 3G[s] made my bed, folded my laundry and filed my taxes for me, I would still have to consider my budget.

As of now, I am in standby.

I'd like to see the results, but the camera optics appear to have been drastically enhanced. Ignore the 'it's 3.0 megapixels' nonsense - it's all about the glass. The autofocus and macro modes should turn what was a barely passable mobile camera into a genuinely useful alternative to a point and click.

You should also note that with the new iPhone, there is a screen reader so that the Blind and sighted impaired can use the iPhone! That's a new feature, don't forget about it