Apple, Google, AdMob, mobile advertising, privacy, and competition
Apple restricting third-party advertisers from collecting personal data if they are owned by another platform vendor could be a way of preventing Google's AdMob from competing directly on the iPhone with Apple's iAd, but it could also be a sign that Apple, cranky after leaked iPhone prototypes and iPad analytics, is determined to take back control of user data.
Steve Jobs was nothing if not heated at the D8 conference about the leaked iPhone prototype, and perhaps even more so about in-app analytics taking user data, including device and location, and using that to reveal details about the iPad long before it was announced. Imagining Apple's subsequent reaction to the thought of now-rival Google having early access to such detailed information not only about unreleased Apple devices, but about which devices iOS users have, at what location, and their app usage patterns probably sent a chill down their collective spines.
App Cubby's David Barnard put together an excellent post about it earlier today:
When you use Google search and other Google products, they collect a tremendous amount of information and use that information to customize and better serve the ads that are the core of their business. Many users don’t even realize this is happening, others are comfortable with it and have some level of trust for Google’s intent in using that data.
Well, Apple doesn’t trust the benevolence of Google, developers, and other third parties involved in the iOS platform. Apple wants to control the flow of user information.
Barnard also points out Apple primarily makes their money off hardware sales, not the brokering of user information the way Google or Facebook do. He also suggests part of AdMob's $700 million value to Google was exactly the type of data they could pull off iOS devices:
Editor-in-Chief of iMore, Executive Producer at Mobile Nations, co-host of Iterate and ZEN and TECH, cook, grappler, photon wrangler.
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$700 value?
I think they left out a "million" after the $700.
Isn't it about using information gained via iPhone apps, to boost competing products? Seems fair enough.
My understanding is if AdMob didn't use the analytics to feed info to Google, for Android - there'd be no issue.
@frog
No, that story does not let the fanbois put Apple on a moral pedastal, so they have to create one like this.
Come on, @jimbo, this isn't simply a fanboi vs fanboy fight. Create a business model and see if you like it when a competitor is able to syphon off your customer data and report back here on how 'open' you are to that. Besides taking away your edge, it also tells yours customers that you are a valued partner to them, by sharing their data which they gave to you, to another service.
Frankly, I don't trust the benevolence of Apple either! Can you say AdBlock anyone?!?!? I'm always forced to JB if only for custom adblocking /etc/hosts file.
", but about which devices iOS users have, at what location, and their app usage patterns probably sent a chill down their collective spines."
The new policy allow collecting and do analytics with device UDID, location and other data.
@frog "My understanding is if AdMob didn’t use the analytics to feed info to Google, for Android – there’d be no issue."
Nop, if you can't collect data you're banned in practice.
apple is like the kid on the playground who loses at sports. WELL IF YOU'RE GONNA BE MEAN THEN I'M NOT PLAYING WITH YOU HRMMPPPHHH. /takes ball home.
at this point apple just looks like a gigantic flopping joke, i don't care that they rake money in. the real geeks all use android, nobody with half an informed mind buys an iphone. the smart kids avoid apple like the plague. whats going to be funny soon is apple has some of the least secure platforms around, and they're competing with the most secure. what happens when the real geeks start attacking the little iphone kids OS?
i think the recent breach of security happenings on apples side is a very short story of the epic to come. apple knows it's about to enter a war it will lose, because well, they've been down this road before, and it didn't end well for them. they didn't seem to learn anything either, they're treating android just like they treated windows, like it didn't exist. big mistake.
@katypee
Dunning–Kruger much ?
I personally F.ucking hate AdMob, and we are counting on iAd to put them permently out of business
@Katypee Interesting points you make, could you provide links to your sources describing which Apple sources are the least secure?
katypee:
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/online_mobile/iphone-vs-android/
Suggests Android users aren't so smart.
Come on Rene, to even try to make the claim that this is about privacy is ridiculous considering the recent other steps Apple has taken to stymie competition. Steve is scared. His obsession with Google(Android), even in his keynote, is telling isn't it?
Go watch the D8 interview with Jobs and see how angry he gets when he talks about Giz and especially Flurry getting information about unannounced Apple products.
Then picture him realizing Google just bought AdMob and would have even better access to Apple's iOS user data.
What would Jobs' reaction be to that? What would any company's? Barnard nailed it.
@Katypee are you serious? Apple is a flopping joke? You obviously don't know how business works. Your opinion is just that...your opinion...and obviously it has been clouded by an inferior product produced by Google. The mere fact you seem to hate Apple, and yet you come on an Apple/iPhone blog/forum to exclaim how "great" Android/Google are shows the pathetic existence you live. Move on to a Fandroid site and learn how business works.
A major part of the iAds concept is that users should no longer feel afraid to click on ads. They need to feel confident that clicking an ad will not push them out of their app and into Safari to look at yet another boring webpage. Simply, people will only click ads on the iPhone if they are confident the result of that action will not suck. Hence, bye bye AdMob.
@Rene I wouldn't even waste time with some of these people. Its Fandroids trolling to stir the pot. They are the ones who carry around the tape measures to prove who is "better".
@Katypee The recent security issue was an attack on ATT not Apple.
@oletros: Not true. Anyone in advertising can tell you they type of analytics that they steal now did not used to be available and still aren't in most mediums. Just because it is being done without the users knowledge or understanding doesn't make it right. Now Apple, I'm sure is not so altruistic and is concerned more with their data than yours. That said the more we restrict the information getting out to advertisers the better IMHO. I don't want a "Created" experience to my demographic.
AdMob was among the few they had an issue with. Stop taking the data, and Apple will be forced to let them back in. What would this mean as an advertisers. Well, bummer they would be limited to impression count, distribution, app demographics, known iphone purchaser demographics, etc--which is more than enough to work from.
@Frog
thats a great find. really backs up my thoughts about fandroids being childish
Well here's a double standard if ever there was one.
Apple bought Quattro Wireless so they can make iAd. Here's the user permissions their SDK says it needs straight from the wiki on how to implement ads (in this case, on Android) http://wiki.quattrowireless.com/index.php/Android :
INTERNET
READPHONESTATE
ACCESSCOARSELOCATION
ACCESSFINELOCATION
Take special note of ACCESSCOARSELOCATION and ACCESSFINELOCATION.
That means Apple owned Quattro Wireless is using cell towers to get the location of where the phone is (coarse location) and if they have GPS turned on, they'll know if you're using seeing the app in your bathroom (fine location). Don't add these permissions and Apple/Quattro ads won't show.
Apple's doing the same thing AdMob did. Apple gave only half the story so that people like Frog can rally around them and make statements like the one he made.
If Apple doesn't want advertisers to get location information from their devices, that's fine. But what happens if Samsung or Motorola put out a top secret device and an app that uses Quattro for ads reveals location (which as you see in the link above, it will)? Will Steve defend it or admit to doing the same thing?
Not that I have a problem with Steve's position. Just get the facts before frantically waving a fanboi towel regardless of platform.
@katypee I dont know the exact # of brain cells it killed reading that comment but i now feel dumber.
@JoBlow
True, Apple is collectng the same data AdMob was collecting, and Apple allow "independent" ad agencies collect the same data AdMob was collecting.
Please, read the policy and you will see what is allowed to collect.
@Tallbruva Interesting, but as you point out, that is for Android phones. Do you have any evidence that the same situation still applies now that Apple owns Quattro. Also, doesn't this come as a requirement for location based services rather than an overall snooping policy that adMob seems to be engaging in.
@frac Yup. It's here in their must current wiki: http://wiki.quattrowireless.com/index.php/API_Documentation . Look at the "Enhance Your Targeting" section. This applies not just to Android but to all OSs supported by the Quattro API. This might shock some but you're being targeted by ads (from every company who provides this service actually, not just AdMob and Quattro) down to your age and income level.
That's why I went on my rant about Steve Jobs being angry about what AdMob did. Which wasn't illegal. In fact, it's a normal industry practice among mobile ad companies. And he's doing the same thing he accused AdMob of. Again, I'm cool with that. He should just present both sides.
The only time location based services is a requirement is if the developer chooses to use them (any map, find my car, log my jog app, etc). The loophole is that the ad company forces the developer to add at a minimum coarse location so they can target ads to the desired demographic even if the purpose of the app doesn't require it.
Over 80 % of iPhone users have an income over $50,000 a year. The vast majority of Android users have income under $50,000 a year.
Yes, Android users are not as smart.
@James Katt
Ohhh, this is an argument, yes, an smart argument.
I guess there is no putting the cat back in the bag.
So I suppose the only way to block the ads is to JB?
@JoBlow
Actually, you're right.