iPhone 4 vs Android Captivate
An iPhone 4 user's experience with the Android 2.1 powered Samsung Captivate on AT&T
I’ll preface this by saying before this review, I’ve hardly laid hands on an Android device, let alone considered throwing my iPhone aside to completely delve into the OS and see if I could actually survive without my iPhone. In my time with an Android device, the short answer would be that Android would be a perfectly passable everyday phone. But would I make the switch and ditch my iPhone 4? Hit the jump to find out as well as see tons of videos and a gallery chock full of comparison pics!
Coming to the decision to give Android a try was the easy part. Then came the tricky part, picking an actual Android device. With the iPhone it’s simple, the best model is typically the newest model, and with Apple’s current product cycle, there’s only 1 a year to choose from. Along with that, in the US you have one carrier choice, AT&T. (Unless of course you want to unlock and use an iPhone on T-Mobile sans 3G.) I decided the easiest solution would be to stick to AT&T and check out their Android selection. This proved to be an easier decision on AT&T opposed to other carriers such as Verizon, which carries an abundance of Android powered devices. My choices were between the HTC Aria and the Samsung Captivate. Both of which run Android OS version 2.1. I’ve never been a huge fan of HTC hardware, so I went with the Captivate, and I’m glad I did.
Hardware
YouTube LinkThe most obvious thing about a phone, and the first thing you notice is the physical design. Both of these phones are built extremely well. When comparing specifically the iPhone 4 and the Captivate, both feel solid in your hand. The back of the Captivate is a brushed metal with glossy bands on the top and the bottom while the iPhone 4 is a solid slab of glass on the back. To me, the back of the iPhone 4 may look better, but in everyday use, I somehow feel more comfortable setting the Captivate down on a bare surface naked and not worrying whether or not it’s going to scratch. One of my only peeves with Apple products are hairline scratches. The plastic backs of the iPhone 3G and 3GS held up well as far as the white version went. The black version was a fingerprint magnet and you could see any tiny imperfection. The iPhone 4 in black holds up better in my experience than the previous models as far as blemishes, but the fingerprints still madden me. As far as feel, the iPhone 4 still feels more solid in my hand than the Captivate.
The Camera
Both phones sport a 5MP camera. Neither have too many options. I’m making this short because in all honesty, I didn’t see too much of a difference. The iPhone 4 pictures appear to be a tiny bit warmer than the Captivate’s, but besides that and the lack of a flash on the Captivate, they were about even. I find myself not using the flash on the iPhone 4 unless it’s extremely dark and I’m forced to. It seems to make everything look washed out in my opinion, so I avoid it whenever I can.Compatibility
When you use a smartphone, you really have to choose a phone that suits your needs. What do you do everyday? What are you going to use the device for? For me, I look for a solid e-mail app, an awesome calendar app, social networking support (and more importantly, the choices you have when it comes to networking applications). After that comes entertainment value. And before anything else comes system compatibility.I remember back before the iPhone when I used Blackberrys and we had to keep a PC laying around solely so I could back up my Berrys and be able to upgrade to the latest leaked OS, as well as sync my content. Eventually 3rd parties picked up the slack for RIM, but it still wasn’t the most ideal solution. Eventually RIM came out with a Mac client, but it was too little too late in my opinion.
I was hoping this wouldn’t be the case with Android. But alas, I could not find an easy way to get my contacts and media on the Captivate. I eventually asked some trusty folks on Twitter. Instead of taking several hard routes, I created a new Gmail address and imported my contacts to that address for wireless sync. Workable but not the most convenient method. For media, several people recommended DoubleTwist. It got the job done, but it was somewhat maddening that I had to go through a few different processes just to get content onto the device. There are also programs like Missing Sync that work well, but a $40 price tag just to have better sync with Mac is somewhat ridiculous. I understand that several years ago Mac users were a niche group and less than 2% market share. This is by no means the case anymore, so software manufacturers need to stop leaving out Mac users. By now, we should have compatibility right out of the gate.
With my iPhone 4, I sync to iTunes and I’m done. I’m also a MobileMe user so I’ve never had to worry about that content being lost when switching from iPhone to iPhone. I also found no easy way to get my iCal events onto my Android device. To me, if I wanted to use the phone in the way I intend, it almost forces you to use not only Gmail but GCal as well. Since I am a Mac user, the iPhone 4 obviously wins hands down as far as compatibility goes.
Battery Life
We all know iPhones don’t have the best battery life in the world, and I’m not sure about other Android devices, but the Captivate battery life was a little disappointing to me. I’m a pretty heavy user and receive a lot of e-mails (Rene is an e-mailing machine) and I found it hard to make it through a whole day. My iPhone 3GS typically stayed on the charger while I was at work just for simplicity’s sake and so I didn’t have to worry about a dead battery, but my iPhone 4 seems to get much better battery life and I don’t worry about it quite as much. With the Captivate, I found myself wishing I invested in a second charger to take to work and ended up carrying the cable back and forth after 2 days of it being dead by the time I left work for the day. I’m sure part of that is thanks to the screen. It’s a sacrifice you’ll have to make if you want 4” of AMOLED goodness I suppose.Applications
This is one area I enjoyed exploring. The Android Marketplace really DOES have tons of apps. No, they don’t have the same ridiculous number Apple has, but I disagree with Apple’s representation of apps. When I look at the number of apps a platform has, I want to know how many “quality” apps that platform has. Leave out all the junk and apps that should have never been approved in the first place, and I’d say the iTunes app store has less than 40,000 quality apps.
I was pleasantly surprised with the selection Android users have. Any type of app I could possibly want, I have at least 3 choices or more, which in most situations are more than sufficient. The only area I saw a pretty poor selection in was Twitter clients. This is probably just me though. I have more Twitter clients on my iPhone than you can shake a stick at. And I switch between them - frequently. I’m flaky when it comes to Twitter clients and I get bored. For any normal person, Android’s growing selection would accommodate most non-mutants just fine.
Now let’s talk native applications. Google put a lot of thought into basic everyday apps like the phone and texting app. I absolutely love how you can swipe left and right in your contacts to call or message someone. That’s ingenious and a really quick way to interact with your contacts. I’m not sure if these features are unique to Android OS 2.1 or not, but they’re pretty frak’n sweet. Clicking on someone’s picture within their contact card also gives you additional ways you can interact with that person. The message app is also very easy to use and overall, I really enjoyed the interface of all the core apps. The only thing I really did not care for was all the trial and bloatware that comes pre-installed on the device. I spent 30 minutes clearing out junk before I actually dug into the marketplace and loaded the phone up with things I actually wanted. This reminds me of the shiver that runs down my spine when you boot up a new PC and see a desktop loaded with nothing but crap. Hey, maybe Best Buy can start offering Android optimization services as another form of highway robbery. (You can thank me later for the idea Best Buy, just know I’ll be expecting my royalty check every month.)
Once all the bloatware was thrown into a fiery hole of despair, you are left with a 4” canvas of AMOLED goodness to tweak and customize until your heart’s content. And that leads me to my main focus of this article.....
Android OS vs iOS
YouTube LinkThe OS is probably the single most important factor when choosing a phone. In my experience, I’ve found things about Android that I really like, and then things that I really don’t like.
The main screen on Android OS is pretty much a blank canvas for you to do what you will with. You can drop icons and reorder them just like you would on the iPhone, but you can also create widgets and customize until your heart’s content. This is one area Apple really has fallen behind. My biggest gripe with iOS is the lack of a decent notification system. In that area, Android wins by a landslide.
The Android OS also gives you a few choices when it comes to keyboards. I was pretty excited to get to try out Swype. While it seems to be pretty quick, it still has its quirks. No matter what keyboard I chose, I found myself lagging behind how quickly I can type on my iPhone. But to be fair, I have been typing on an iPhone keyboard for over 3 years now.
Android offers a lot of cool gestures and shortcuts in general I wish Apple would take a closer look at. But there’s also certain things that seem to be overdone. It seemed I spent a good amount of time figuring out alerts and sounds, as well as configuring general settings. It seemed a little overwhelming that I could pick alerts for every little thing. The option is nice but the settings panel is a little confusing. Sometimes I felt like I didn’t really know what settings I was changing, I had to experiment. It reminded me somewhat of the 80 billion alerts Blackberry users are presented with. To me, it was a little overkill.
Conclusion
All in all, I’m glad I decided to give Android a try. My honest opinion is that it’s a platform that’s got a ridiculous amount of potential. I think the ideas are all there, but the implementation isn’t quite there yet. My iPhone does what I want it to do seamlessly (and I know being a Mac user gives me a leg up on PC users in some cases), but either way - the iPhone is so dead easy to use. I’m basing my conclusions off of iOS 4. If I were comparing previous releases of iOS to Android, that would be a much tougher decision. Even though I’m sticking with my iPhone, Android is definitely a platform to keep a close eye on. And here’s to hoping Apple will step up their game too when it comes to iOS 5 and beyond. Even though I may be staying on the iPhone side of the fence, I now have a new respect for the platform as well as its users. Just as I prefer my platform, I can see why tons of power users would choose Android as well.Thanks to my boss who took tons of excellent hi-res pics for me since I'm too cheap to break down and finally get a DSLR. And a special thanks to @kasperapd as well for lending us some iPhone 4/Evo4G comparison shots (apparently that phone IS rarer than a unicorn!) And as always, we encourage you guys to chime with your comments and thoughts!
Jailbreak, Mod, and DIY editor at iMore, Founder of PXLFIX, Potter pundit, the ninja in your iOS.
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@JoBlow
I think you have that backwards:
No widgets, archaic notification system, no menu or back button, tiny little screen, forced to use clunky iTunes, and dropped calls left and right.
That sounds more like a no frills flight Sure it is 'easier' when you are strapped tightly in and can only do what what strict flight crew let's you do.
But just because the plane is painted in pretty colors and has nice seats and the tickets are expensive and the airline has a great marketing department, some people have convinced themselves that makes it a luxury jet.
They've even convinced themselves that because things are dumbed down they get things done faster but that is mostly because that is the only thing they have experience with and assume non-dumbed down things take longer even though they actually don't.
@JohnSteg,
"No widgets, archaic notification system, no menu or back button, tiny little screen, forced to use clunky iTunes, and dropped calls left and right."
No widgets check - and NO BIG Deal. I used Pocket PC and Windows Mobile for 8 years which pioneered the widget concept (Today screen) and I have to say that I don't miss "widgets".
Forced to use Clunky itunes? Are you kidding me? You're going to tell me that programs like Tunesync and Media Monkey are not "kludgey workarounds" to access iTunes playlists is NOT clunky? Or perhaps your are going to say you are a real geek and you prefer dragging and dropping files to/from your device?
"Tiny Little Screen" - Are you kidding me? I don't want a 2001 Monolith like the EVO or Droid X in my pocket. And if you are referring to the 3.7" Nexus 1 or Incredible screen, I hate to tell ya, there's not much dicernable difference there to make or break a viewing experience.
"Dropped calls left and right" - Sure I drop calls but the number of calls that are dropped are the LARGE minority. Sorry to burst your bubble.
You can get off the haters' bandwagon now.
I enjoyed this read. Obviously as a Mac user and MobileMe user, it would be easier to sync with the iphone.. As a google user would find android easier, and Im guessing an outlook/hotmail user will find winodws 7 phone to be easier.
I am disappointed that the battery life on the Captivate was less than stellar.. Battery is one of the most important factors for deciding on a phone.. Whats the use of a sweet phone if it dies by noon?
@JohnSteg,
Oh and btw, Apple has hired webOS interface designer Rich Dellinger to improve the current notification system. And before you go spouting off about that particular fact Google has hired Matias Duarte to improve the "unpolished" feel of the base Android UI. I guess Google knows that the current experience is not up to snuff and almost begs to have a HTC Sense, MotoBlur, put on a given device to make it a pleasurable experience.
So after all is said and done, BOTH companies understand their shortcomings and are taking steps to provide better experiences to their current and new user base.
@blee,
I sync with both MS Exchange and Mobile Me on my iPhone. To my knowledge base Android 2.1 does not support native contact and calendar sync with Exchange. Froyo does bring native Exchange sync but is not available yet. At this time, and another item pointing to "Fragmentation" is that HTC has built in Exchange cal and contact support into the Sense shell.
I would venture to say at this point in time, the iPhone provides more native sync options (Exchange, Mobile Me, Yahoo, Gmail) than Google does out of the box.
@ JohnSteg: @JoBlow
widgets-Agree with JNGold--Not to mention they are ugly, clunky, and visually unappealing. Don't need them there are other apps to do the job.
clunky iTunes? That's funny, least clunky of any app I've used for such a function. I do wish they all let you work straight USB--but FEW do.
"what strict flight crew let’s you do" That is just wrong. As address here a thousand time they are all restrictive in their way. The very reason I use a mac tower is work the way I want opposed to being locked into the confines dictated by Windows (unless I want to type code all day). So I understand that. But there are always ways to make it work--Jailbreak if you need that, but I won't be locked into a flying brick--all yours.
I've met very few that once they use a mac would trade it for a pc. And while some people whine about aspects of Apple, while others are catching up, it is obviously the one of the best in the market. So if you prefer the un painted, holey seats, just as marketed (I see droid commercials more than any other), clunker in the sky, just because you can fit it into any garage instead of a hanger--go right ahead -- who's stopping you.
I've experienced many systems, and have worked in many fashions within various systems. If a system is smart enough--you don't have to keep playing with it to get what you need, It just works-and mine does.
@MATTISM78, how did your EVO and droid X only last one day??
Using a Mac gives you a leg up? Ha... Linux > Mac OS X any day of the week...
With that said Apple is the epitome of an evil corporation. I would never support a company that tries to make modifying hardware that you purchased and own illegal (jailbreaking).
Apples philosophy = What Apple wants for you to do you can do... With a PC (or Android for that matter) its what would you like to do?
@JNGold
It looks like to me you are still on the hater bandwagon. Since when Android does not support native contact and calendar sync from exchange. Seriously, check your facts. These were supported at least since 1.5.
I think this was a fair review .. except for the whole Syncing with your Itunes part .. The problem was not that Android makes it harder... but it was harder for you because you're tied up to the Apple Ecosystem ... but if you had all your contacts in Google .. i'm sure it wouldn't be as easy to set up your Itunes contacts...
btw.. I know it's hard to have an unbias review.. in an Iphone Blog.. just like I dont expect an unbias review from an android blog either... I just can't stand the Iphone Fanboys.. like Rene ... i'm glad he wasn't the one doing this...
@Ben,
Oh really? I would like to see proof of that statement. I did say Native Android and not any type of shell interface. I know Nexus one owners that don't have cal and contact sync support and only have email.
I will be waiting for that proof.
@Ben,
From the Google support forum: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google%20Mobile/thread?tid=4143633f3d3661cb&hl=en
Version 1.6 huh?
@Ben,
So from the above I see contacts do sync but not Calendars which is critical and the basis of my statement. That is addressed in Froyo so you are wrong and you should check your facts also.
I understand now what you mean. No problem, one point. But that's like saying you cannot use apps on your phone. You don't need a "shell UI" such as Sense to support Exchange, an app will do it. It is like saying that IOS does not support Navigation natively whereas Android does. Android and probably IOS have many things they don't support natively, well, I guess this is why we have apps. Most of the time, apps do a better job, probably on both IOS or Android.
I have a sort of déja vu ... Steve Jobs bringing out a fantastic computer with a stylish design called a Mac and Bill Gates bringing out MS Windows for ugly metal boxes called PCs. We all know what happened after that. First, and I see some similarities :
I also see some differences :
Conlusion : no idea, but if you ask me Steve better bring out a cheap Iphone before Xmas...else Android will win the endgame.
Farid
@Ben
Using an app to support exchange is a clunky solution. Apps like Touchdown or Roadsync do not integrate well with other elements of the OS. The iPhone since 3.0 supports Exchange and works to sync the native iCal.
As far as shells are concerned, that is part of the fragmentation 'issue' where exhange features are available to some Android users and not others.
The full implementation of Exchange is just one of the reasons why the iPhone has made inroads to the Enterprise and why Google decided to fully integrate it into the Froyo version of the OS.
It's a decent comparison, and avoids being too partisan. I think that its unfair to mark any device down because of the lack of Mac compatibility compared to Apple's own phone. Macs have gotten more popular, but windows still maintains some 90% market share. Considering that a lot of people if they have a Mac will have an iPhone due to the nature of the ecosystem, the other developers just don't want to spend money chasing a mythical customer base.
Still, good to read, and I'm happy to see that both sides get fair hearing, and especially that Android is more focused toward the power user, and iPhone for the consumer.
Good job
@Farid
You do know you you can get a 3GS which by the way, still stacks up nicely with even low end Android devices for 99 bucks? Heck, before the iPhone 4 people were comparing the 3GS with higher-end Android devices and it held its ground.
If 99 bucks ain't cheap, I don't know what is!
WHat do you mean app don't integrate well with other elements of the OS? May be on IOS, but not on Android. Well developped apps do integrate well. They get your sync right, share contacts, but also provide full support for the notifications like other native apps and widgets.
@ Farid: There is a cheap iPhone - The $99 iPhone 3GS. No need to wait until Christmas. Sure it's not the latest and greatest, but neither are the sub-$200 Android phones.
@ iSheep: I use a Mac & an iPhone 4 and I've never been unable to complete my job, nor suffered from suboptimal work output because of it. Just because there may be less customization options for iPhones as compared to Android phones doesn't mean the same work can't get done. And as for MacOS X customizations, there are boatloads. Perhaps it's inexperience on your part, but the MacOS is not the little System 7 it once was on the little original beige Mac.
@Ben
You are incorrect. My understanding and research into these types of apps is that they maintain their own database. They may be able to show their data in a custom widget but that doesn't mean the information is shared with the default calendar. Have you noticed that even in Google proper there are 2 mailboxes and two separate apps just to read mail? That is a fail.
Check out one of the more popular Exchange sync apps for the Android platform: http://www.nitrodesk.com/TouchDown.aspx
@all fanboys (android or iphone)
Its ok to relax, turns out they're just phones.
@JNGOLD .. I used widgets on Windows Mobile as well .. and it has nothing on Android widgets... Sorry to dissapoint you ...
but so many times IPhone lovers mention how easy to use the Iphone is ..
what is more user friendly than Widgets.. want the weather.. no need to open an app.. there are plenty of elegant weather widgets out there... including some that come with the phones.. wanna check your stock... yup.. right there on your home screen .. you have a twitter widget ... you just so happen to be on ur homescren and you see an interesting post by someone you follow...
Now there is no way you can do that on the Iphone.. and they are pretty flexible...
@Jerry
Your not disappointing me. I know full well what widgets are and what they offer. I don't miss them. I used spb Pocket plus, sbsh pocket breeze and weather, a dozen other today screen plugins, HTC Touch Flow, and I know full well what it's like to have information on the home screen.
I don't miss it.
Ok. Newbie here Really to dump my blackberry any second
So flash support? Doesn't android win? Multi tasking? Do theyboth run multiple applications like web browser and other apps at same time with click to switch or dual pane views?
Cms editing? Cuirrently using iPad and I understand there is no support for any web content managers wysiwyg.
Excel edit. .? Does either allow this
PowerPoint show and edit? Yes dreaming
Skype calls with Bluetooth support? Currentlyi my wifes iPhone does work well with skype. In Canada but am hearing issues with fring .. Skype for android?
Save photos to device?
Seem unable to save any attachments to my iPad ? Did not want to be shackled to iTunes. Don,t want to hook up desktop to sync.
I see google calendar as future. Are they both equal in sync. ... Asuuming more apps on way and fray. . Adressing shortcomings
Thanks for input
To be fair I am Still am focused on android anyhow as it is more open to develop apps for.
Hmmm no edit posts. Froyo
@JnGold, Alright, looking at all your post, I understand your point of view now. You are a real fanboy. No need to pursue the discussion on my side. You see, I own an android phone, and I own an Itouch. I use both. I am not a fanboy, I just use what I think is the best product. To conclude our exchange, I will simply use your logic as a joke. For me, navigation is more important than email. IOS does not have native navigation, this is why I choose Android. By the way, the original article was pretty fairly balanced.
Joke? WTF? Perhape before you engage in conversation you should educate yourself on the topics you are talking about. You obviously were clueless about Exchange sync on the Android and were unaware about how such apps work on an Android device, which you claim to own.
The word Fanboy means nothing now days and is a convenient way of dismissing people who happen to prefer another platform.
Google has an easy way to sync with iCal: http://www.google.com/support/calendar/bin/answer.py?answer=99358#ical
Anyone with a Google account will have a nicer time setting up their Android phone. I happened to and was very pleased to see my Gmail, Contacts and Calendar wirelessly syncing with only needing to sign in upon first setup.
You never need to connect your phone to your computer. That's a huge advantage for Android over the iPhone...it does not rely on your computer for syncing and updates. It's things like these a more experienced writer would know about and mention. It wasn't a bad first Android comparison...but it doesn't appreciate what makes Android great.
Sure you have to install an app to use DoubleTwist but how is that different than needing to install iTunes? I prefer drag and drop personally. It's superior to everything because you are in complete control. Unless your music is horribly unorganized, that's all you should need. It's a lot better than iTunes. iTunes tries to take over your computer and doesn't want to let go. I hate it. But okay, I'ld say that media syncing is one of Android's weak spots for now. Come this Christmas with Google Music and Gingerbread, Android will have one more advantage over iOS with wireless music syncing and streaming.
Widgets are a big deal. I have no less than a dozen widgets in use. It save you time by not needing to open apps, they're really fun and they're useful. They change the way you interact with your phone and bring more information to you instead of making you obtain it. My RSS feeds give me a lot of glanceable information that I would not see otherwise. My agenda widget lets me see what I'm doing that day quickly, especially nice because my girlfriend changes things on a shared calendar often and I wouldn't see them as quickly otherwise. No, widgets are not necessary...but WinMo was good enough too. After having good Widgets, and WinMo's widgets were okay at best, I went nuts using a jailbroken iPhone for days.
If you have an Android phone and really don't want widgets...then don't use any. If you just want an app list as your homescreen, there are launchers that do that too. Another advantage of Android not really mentioned in this article, its customization everywhere. I don't use a lot of the stock Google apps.
This article mentioned being able to change each of your ringtones could be confusing. I don't see how it's confusing...it's straightforward. If you really don't want to deal with it...then just use the stock or just change the default settings. But having the ability to change the notification sound of each of your apps is excellent and a must. It lets you know what's going on without having to look at your phone. Especially useful when you're waiting for something or driving for example.
@Deathwish238,
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/01/exclusive-apple-itunes-in-the-cloud-definitely-happening-soon-wireless-syncing/
If you Android owners are going to come over to Tipb and spout off, it would help if you kept abreast of the platform you are attempting to bad-mouth.
Doesn't look like an advantage to me. Matter of fact, with iTunes- advantage Apple.
@jngold
I count itunes as a disadvantage simply because I don't like being tied to a single computer to sync my phone to (if I sync via computer at all)
the ONLY reason I still have itunes on my computer is because I have over $300 in DRM protected music that I haven't converted yet to mp3.
I absolutely love my Motorola Droid. I need my notifications & calendar at a glance. I am all in with Google (podcasts/rss, mail, calendar, docs) and I love the fact that unlike MobileMe Google Sync is not platform specific. I had a Blackberry before my Droid. I did an over the air sync. No problem. However, my biggest reason for not going with iPhone is coverage. I cannot get good AT&T coverage where I live. Aside from that, I cannot stand iTunes; it really is bloated software. I use a lighter music sync software program or drag & drop.
That said, I have friends that get really confused & frustrated try to do certain things with my Droid. Google needs to fix that. But, considering how far they have come since the G1, I am confident that they will.
@menno,
I think it is a big misconception of how reliant the iPhone is to PC's and iTunes. Sure, if you want to update the OS and backup your device you need to connect. However you can purchase both music, media, and apps without ever connecting the iPhone. Case in point, Prior to the 3.2.1 update I didn't connect my ipad to my pc in months. As for items like podcasts, the app Podcaster allows subscribscriptions and downloading of podcasts directly to the device without iTunes over 3G and wifi.
If you sync your device to Exchange or Mobile me the iPhone becomes even less dependent.
Once iTunes moves to the cloud, another reason removed from the dreaded white cable.
Remember, just to take a screenshot in Android you need to be connected to a pc with the sdk. Not too mention if you want to side-load apps to devices like the Aria.
Once iTunes goes to the cloud, one less reason to connect the infamous white USB wire.
a lot of u are missing the point. EVERYONE WOULD HAVE AN IPHONE IF EVERY CARRIER SOLD THEM. i have a palm pre and a moment running 2.1. ive been with sprint for 8 yrs. i dont pay for data. im not switching. web os is a superior os, with no hardware. android is my only option. i have a mac and an ipod, so i undertsand how seamless apple products work together. im sol though. so android it is.
This was a pleasant and fare read. I myself suffered many years as a Blackberry owner, and a Mac user. I am now on my second Android product (HTC Incredible),and I love it. I know A LOT of people use their Macs more than I do. I never use the calender, I never add to the contacts, I don't use mac mail... Thats because for the most part, thats why I got a smartphone. Because I'm out more than I'm near my laptop. So calender entries get entered in my phone, so do new contacts. And they all get stored on Googles limitless bottomless pit of servers.. So anytime I get a new android device, all my settings, contacts, data, etc just magically appear when I log in to my phone for the first time. I do use double twist when I want to do some more in depth file placement, as I have 8 gig internal, and a 2 gig micro SD, I can move things around a bit easier. Photos dont seem to be a problem either.. Plug my phone into my macbook, iphoto opens just like if it were a camera... To say I'm an Android fanboy is far from the truth. I'm a great phone fanboy... In my opinion from using MANY Android phones. The Incredible is by FAR the best so far. 8mp cam, size, weight, battery life... Plus Verizon... IMO, you can't beat it... Now, were Apple wise enough to bring iPhone to Verizon, I'd have to very VERY seriously think about changing, and I probably would. As I love my Apple toys... So all in all, if you're thinking of changing, take a look at the incredible. Yes these phones are infinitely customizable, and can seem overwhelming. But they are extremely user friendly.
Oh, and I also have to mention... I would have gotten an iPhone LONG ago if they would have had certain IM apps, a camera, mms capabilities, and such. Most things even non smartphones had. Seems like Apple, at the least in the phone dept, is always trying to play catch up.
Comment deleted
Dear Lars,
Leaving comments that have no substance or point will do nothing but get your comments deleted. If you have some "actual" feedback, feel free to leave it, if not, please don't waste your time (or anyone else's).
This doesn't just go for Lars, this goes for anyone. If you don't agree w/ me, that's perfectly ok. Feel free to argue your point or disagree, but do NOT personally slam people for any reason, being an Apple user or personally. That contributes nothing to this community. Go elsewhere, we don't tolerate here.
Ally
Ok....
Seems like a lot of fighting over nothing here...
The review in and of itself was fair to the Captivate but not truly to the Android OS. Although the Captivate (Galaxy S) having the TouchWiz UI is probably the closest Android UI to the iPhone UI. With this being an Apple site I am surprised at the unbiased review in the first place and am grateful to see one.
There are problems with both OS's and the interface on them. Android is a new OS and has hit the ground running doing a great job. It still has problems with several sync issues outside of Google without using apps and this is to be expected with it being a Google phone. iPhone had many issues with its sync for exchange and several of the free based e-mail clients without apps also for a while. So Android is going through its growing pains the same as iPhone did, no surprise there.
The whole music sync issue that people have mentioned is not really worth mentioning. iTunes was designed for iPod which ended up being iPhone so it was designed to be a music player with a phone. Android was designed to be an all around OS for a phone that would do everything you wanted it to. Syncing is conducted through Google and drag and drop via explorer. Google didn't make its own music sync program like apple did so music sync is not comparable for out of the box support. But you can find Third party support out there.
Now correct me if I am wrong but the best thing about this is that you are comparing two phones of the same origins. Both phones are Unix. Android is a Linux based OS and Linux is based on Unix. And Apple's OS's are based on Unix. So this is really a fight between two brothers is software. So the whole this is better that is better thing is pointless. In reality they are both good phones and have learned from each other. In the long run they are pushing each other to be better.
Now with that being said I am not a fan of the iPhone in fact I have an Android phone. The Motorola Droid X to be exact and although I love the Hardware and Android I hate the Motorola interface. "Vanilla" Android, the base Google OS, is the best form of the Operating system on any Android phone. I do not care for the Samsung TouchWiz, Motorola MotoBlur, or the HTC Sense. Although the HTC Sense is the best of them there are only one or two I like about them. But this is just my opinion and dosnt count for anything but it is what it is.
I would never buy an iphone or any apple product.
Most of the features that the iOS/iphone lacks are due to business decisions. On a fully capable operating system running on a mobile computer like the iphone it is totally ridiculous and unacceptable that you can only install applications approved by Apple, can only sync using iTunes, don't have access to the file system. They even forbid you from sending files via bluetooth. Think about the outrage that would happen if Microsoft did the same with Windows.
Apple`s walled garden business model goes against the philosophy that made the internet and the PC (yes the Mac too) so great: Limitless innovation on an even playfield.
I don`t understand why so few people see this.
@ Ender I agree with your first sentence...I find it interesting how one pretty fair and unbiased review turns into a (my opinion and views are better than yours, my phone ditates my status and name slinging) arguement.. Aren't these cell phones? Find one that works for you and state why without bashing someone elses choice.
@ Allyson, I must say there aren't too many other writers/websites that would be as fair or as unbiased with their reviews on other phones...good job.
@Captain,
You really need to do some research. The iPhone has made large strides into enterprise markets so I guess your concept of a "mobile computer" is not so important anymore. Guess what? Prohibited access to a file system does not make a device any less productive, especially when there are tons of file management applications and office suites to manage any type of document you can have.
As for your "walled garden" comment, don't look now but MS is following the same concept for Windows Phone 7. Hmmm.....
had to chime in a bit... not a bad review.. although it's ur bias can't truly be masked.. ur a mac user comparing a mac product that you've used for years to a google/android product.. the fact that you were able to see some of the light at the end of the tunnel is amazing in itself.. most of "you" can't see anything non-mac.. so kudos.. lets imagine from a non-mac user, meaning a person who isn't trying to use i-everything to sync with their phone.. i don't imagine that the iphone goes as well with windows 7 or any of the google products as well either... but thanks for being open.. another point overlooked here however is that battery life on android phone ties largely into the ROM and user interface being ran on the device.. and samsung has their own custom user interface being ran over the os, which likely drains the battery more in the way sense and motoblur did to other android phones.. the great thing about android is that you can place whatever custom ROM you'd like on your phone, u don't have to stick with the out of the box UI.. which makes it the obvious platform of choice.. hardware is negotiable with android... you can pick the size, touch or slide out keyboard, speed, whatever u want u can find it in an android phone.. no limitations.. android is here to push the envelope, where apple may have created the initial stirring, they've definitely dropped the ball by limiting their platform..
** a loyal nexus one user, on a cyanogen's froyo rom.. and blackberry bold user) **
good review.
I think the conclusion that the phone you've been using for 3+ years provides a "seamless" way to do things is a little biased. Having put all of yours eggs into the iTunes / MobileMe basket after Apple really created that ecosystem, you find yourself perfectly aligned with the iPhone's capabilities. I'm not saying this is a bad thing or that you did anything wrong, just that it's hard to compete when all of your media and information is locked into those tools.
On the other hand, I used an iPhone 3G for quite a with Gmail, Google Contacts and GCal, purchased my DRM-free mp3s from Amazon and when I picked up my Droid, it was a painless transition.. it just took a little while to learn the interface.
I'm not one that believes Android is for everyone (yet), but you're in a better position to switch if you're not using Apple's proprietary services.
Alright guys, This thread has gotten out of hand in several parts. Want to disagree w/ me? That's fine. Want to think I missed something and point it out? Totally fine as well.
But do not start flaming eachother and calling eachother fanboys/girls, you are all aware that term is just as disrespectful as cursing at someone in the tech world. And typically, people only throw that word around when they have no valid argument.
If you'd like to leave a comment, present your argument or input. If you're here to flame or troll, go elsewhere. It won't be tolerated. If I see many more issues in these particular comments, I'll just lock the thread to further comments. Some of you have some good debates going and I like to read you guys' thoughts, but if you can't do it in a civilized manner, we'll end the conversations altogether.
@jngold I understand that there are ways to sync without having to tether to a computer. I just mentioned that because whenever someone is discussing the iphone V android pros and cons, the "seemless" integration and syncing with itunes is ALWAYS mentioned. This is why apps like Doubletwist, etc have a market for android.
For me, I still buy a lot of physical CD's because I like having them, and because I like supporting local stores and artists. To get these on my android, I can rip them to any computer and xfer them. To get them on my ipod, I have to sync it to my specific computer, which I could be weeks away from at the time (I don't even own a CD player anymore, so this is weeks until I hear the new album I bought)
The locking of sideloading apps on the aria was ATT, not android. Still not sure why they block that. As for screenshots, I honestly don't know why you need root access to screencap (the android SDK mimics root) but at the same time, it's not something that is vital to the OS. Maybe they'll open up an API to fix this in the future.
I think the article itself was well done. Allyson did a good job at trying to display the positives of android without ending each section with overt bias. it was a refreshing read. There were some parts I disagreed with (Think of having a google account as a requirement, like having an itunes account is for the iphone) but overall it's pretty accurate. Good job.
@JNGold,
I don't care about enterprise markets or any specific features. What I care about is the freedom of mobile computing. The concept of mobile computer is very important. Apple can get away with its restrictive, tyrannical policies because the public haven't realised the fact that today's smartphones are not really phones but small general purpose computers that can make calls. We should have the same freedom as with PC, so limiting the user's rights and leaving out software features because of corporate interest is not acceptable in any way.
The same goes for the carrier companies. They should not have the right to block services (like Skype) on their networks.
@Captain
What is your definition of "Freedom of mobile computing". I suspect that term is as useless as calling someone a fanboy. Unless you can truly explain what that means.
My interpretation is that you can achieve 99.9% of all things you want to accomplish on both the Android phone and the iPhone. The reality is that we are all just disagreeing on nonsensical minor preferences that are unique to each of us. Both Google and Apple have great OS's.
As for the walled garden approach, it's called vertical integration. If you don't like it, again, a personal choice, then use an Android. It doesn't make Apple a worse company for doing it that way. There are many companies that use this approach and it is the consumer that votes with their dollars on whether that approach works or not. It's not a conspiracy, it really isn't.
Also, their tyrannical policies, of which I assume you are talking about Apps, have made more developers money than any other phone and has provided me with many, many apps that I use, without a huge fear of possibly harming my phone or stealing my data. Just do a google search for the wallpaper app on Android that was stealing user info and sending it to china, somewhere in the neighborhood of millions of people's personal info. Now, Apple isn't perfect by any stretch, but like you said, it's a small computing device, and as I see it people tend to also be retarded about how to protect their computers.
I happen to like the Android OS, however, I prefer the iPhone. I wouldn't mind having a second phone that was an android, but I can't bring myself to spend money unnecessarily.
I think the review is very balanced.
After using a BES BlackBerry for years, I decided to try out the iPhone 4 when it came out. Having the ability to do a lot more than work with my email & calendar on the go (and the rather basic BB browser) was very nice, but I found myself frustrated by the inability to do certain basic things I was used to, such as customization of ring and SMS tones, profiles, etc. I also couldn't accept/reject meetings, which is a pretty big problem.
Since I use Google Apps for my business account and gmail for personal, I lunged over to the Captivate, really expecting to find a positive experience. I felt really let-down by what ensued.
Android's calendar app only syncs with the primary account, so I can't sync my personal calendar with my phone. (I could on the BB & iPhone).
Android's Google Talk client only works with the primary account, and since I only use my personal gmail account for Talk, I had to work around this by installing a 3rd party client. Seems rather silly. I never had a problem with the BB client.
I find the dialer app that ships to be kludgy and annoying to search for contacts I want to call. I've had the dialer program crash at least twice a day. The fact that the phone shuts itself off while in calls and I need to hit the power button to mute/hold/confcall is really annoying. Also, the 5-7 second pause after calls followed by the return to the Home screen is frustrating.
OTHER than the basic of phone/email/calendar, I think that (as the author writes) the Android platform has huge potential. However, the fundamentals seem to be more of a patchwork of inconsistencies. I really wanted to have an Android phone, but I don't see it happening with the current iterations. Perhaps in a year with Froyo and future versions out these issues will be fixed.
For now, I'm either going to switch back to the iPhone 4, or back to my BlackBerry 9700. If I don't go back to the BB, it's actually only because the BB with Google Sync and the Google plugin for mail provides an inferior experience to Exchange+BES.
I have no "religious" ties to any of the platforms. I just want to have a tool that keeps me in contact with the world when I'm away from my laptop.
Nice review!
But i think, it's not completely fair to Android users. An Android device has still more pros:
Can you (iOS users) sync your phone without cables? Can you store files (media) on your internal memory? How many of your favorite apps are still for free? Do you don't wont the ability to choose different sounds for different events? Can you look at and edit word, excel and powerpoint? Do you know 'chrome to phone'? Can you buy a cable from every store you want? Can you try apps and if you don't like it, you just uninstall it and you will get the money back? Can you choose the cheapest carrier? Can you use your phone as an external hdd over Wifi or Bluetooth? Even when you're using your phone? Can you turn your phone into a wifi hotspot? Do you have a navigation solution preinstalled? Can you backup and restore your entire phone (apps, settings, data, and OS!) without a computer? Can you visit websites wich aren't especially optimized for your phone? Can you play flash? Can you use your camera led as a torch? Can you acces to informations without opening an app (widget)? Can you install additional keyboards (or anything else of the OS!), if you don't like the native one? Can you use every sound file as a riongtone? Do you have a good notification system? Do you can buy accessoires from every store you like? Can you compile java as fast as froyo? Can you recieve OS updates over the air? No need for a computer!
With Android you have all this things for free. Why choosing an iphone?
Because the iPhone OS is that simple, they really forget how to use modern technology. And the more simple means the less
options you'll have at the same time.
And if I want to develop for Android, it costs me 30$ bucks (but just once, not every year $200) and i'm sure that the app
will appear in the store.
By the way: I sync my Android 2.2 with Exchange, iTunes, Twitter, Pop3 and Imap! It all works great with just 5 mins to set
it up and I didn't spend just one dollar.
If you guys are really fair, an Android 2.2 device would win against the iPhone in almost every part. Even the price...
"Phone are not perfect, we are not perfect" - My Android 2.2 phone is pretty perfect!
cheers
JP,
The freedom of computing (including mobile) means that the user is in full control and that no one other than him or her can control the flow of information to and from the device.
My strongly held belief is that this principle is the key factor in the greatness of the internet. A medium that disrupts hundred year old monopolies, boosts scientific research, creates hundred billion dollar economies and services that completely change our lifes. The "freedom of computing" and net neutrality is what ensures that there are no gatekeepers or toll-collectors between us and the net.
I`m not arguing about the iphone/iOS being a great device and operating system. On the contrary, it has been the best smartphone for 3 years in terms of hardware and usability. However, combined with the closed ecosystem, it poses a great threat on the principles above. Apple's business model and it's success strengthens the tradition that it is okay to lock down customers when it comes to mobile devices.
This whole thing is part of a bigger picture: net neutrality. The greatest fear of carriers is becoming dumb pipes, which means they can't charge for services like voice calls, sms messages, only data. Additionally, ISP's would really like to charge for services on the internet. (see claims that Google should pay for using their networks) This is not a conspiracy theory. There is a big lobbying effort in the US congress to keep it from making net neutrality laws. If they succeed you can say goodbye to the free internet.
What do you think it says about a person who goes around insulting another for voicing their valid opinion that you simply happen to disagree with?
Bottom line is that he likes his MobileMe account, and that gives him the service he likes. If it's worth $100/yr, then great! A smart phone should not dictate which email system you are allowed to use for the best experience. It should work with all of them.
Ironically, while I really enjoy the BlackBerry+BES+Exchange experience, I found that BlackBerry+BIS+Google left a lot to be desired. The sync is not really 2-way, so mail deleted in my Google account was not removed from my BlackBerry. I didn't have proper access to folders, etc. There is a service that costs $10/user/month that requires I upgrade to Google Premiere ($50/user/year) that would fix a lot, but not all, of the issues. I am seriously considering it because it's worth it to me.
I found that the Android-based Captivate is better in email sync, but fails when it comes to the calendar. I cannot sync multiple accounts, and the default calendar for new appointments is the local-only "My Calendar". It's just too much of a kludge to get that working. My phone should work for me, not the other way around. The Google Talk problem is another issue. Don't get me wrong, OTHER than phone/calendar/email I really like the potential of the Captivate, but if the phone fails on the basics, it can only be a secondary device for me at best. I definitely like the ability to store files locally and all of the other capabilities it provides. However, first and foremost - I need a phone.
The iPhone, for all its faults, syncs with multiple Google email accounts and calendars. I can set which my default calendar. Granted, there is no native Google Talk app at all, and there are a number of annoying quirks in the email client. However, none of them are as much of an impediment as the issues with the calendar app on the Captivate.
It would also appear that in order to have the ability to remotely wipe my phone, I would need to pick up the MobileMe subscription. Is it worth it for me only for that? Yes.
So I'm giving back my Android phone in the next few days to pay for external accounts amounting to either $200/yr to use a BlackBerry or $100/yr to use an iPhone. I sure would have liked to not have to do this, but I do it without hesitation because in the end my phone needs to enhance my productivity.
You have a lot of enthusiasm for Android, which is great. However, rather than channeling that into insulting people who don't share your enthusiasm, why don't you channel that into finding out WHY the phone didn't generate that high level of enthusiasm and work to improve it so that in 6-12 months when they look again at an Android phone, they have a great experience and can't wait to jump over. Why not start a company that automates the conversion of media even?
And the flaming has continued. I will no longer edit insults out of comments, I will just delete them, and if I see many more, comments will be disable.
@David you could have got your point across without calling me an idiot. have some tact.
@DonClemento
About half of your questions are yes. Do some research. As to the other half, much of it depends on the android phone that you have. While the iPhone may have not had most of these features from the beginning, in my opinion, what it did have was very intuitive, which Android is not so much. Simplicity sells.
Then of course, much of what you say depends on personal user needs, which is what I was talking about earlier. They are both great OS's, what works for you may not work for others. Just because Android works for you doesn't mean it's the best phone for the world. I mean, I think iPhone is the best, and I always state, that it's my opinion. I do try to be fair.
As for 30$ to develop, if you can't afford another $70 and take the chance of making so much more in the long run in the Apple app store, because let's face it more people are making money with iPhone, then you probably shouldn't develop in the first place. A little business sense goes a long way.
@Captain
"The freedom of computing (including mobile) means that the user is in full control and that no one other than him or her can control the flow of information to and from the device."
While what you say sounds great, however it is in fact impossible. Unless you want to build your own towers or be your own isp, your information will always be controlled by someone else, even with net neutrality. It's just a fact of life. The internet does not exist on its own, and neither does communication or data. So the user will never, ever be in full control. The mere fact that we have to trust Google, Apple, or whoever else to protect our information means that we are not in control. It's a myth that we so eagerly want to believe in, but that which is impossible.
Net Neutrality has nothing to do with control, it has everything to do with Fairness. Apple's walled garden of apps really does not impede this at all. An app, does not in itself represent what net neutrality is about. I see where you are coming from, I just don't agree with the premise, because I believe it is a false one.
@JP
Of course, you can't be invisible to your provider, but this has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I don't care if they see what I do. I just want them not to interfere with my data. Their one and only job is to transmit it to its destination. This is how the internet works.
Let me explain it in a simple way. Once there was landline phone, then the cell phone, both having same business model and core technology. Then there was the internet with completely different rules and tech. They were often in a symbiotic relationship, but they were still separated. However the internet proved to be far superior in terms of efficiency and usefulness and started to compete with the original phone business. This accelerated after the net had appeared in the air. Why would anyone use his expensive phone minutes if he make a call on skype for almost free. Why would I send an SMS if I can send an email instead..
Due to the superiority of TCP/IP all the major communication networks (wired and wireless) has started switching to it. Even cellphone carriers are replacing their old SS7 based infrastructure to ethernet and IP based because it is cheaper and faster, thus more cost efficient. Meaning sooner or later all public communication will go through the internet. This process is called IP convergence.
However there is a problem. The traditional telco's are used to selling services, but rules of the internet prevent them from doing so. They're averse from being simple ISP's (which, on the contrary to their fears can be a very good business). Now, joined by the cable companies (whose TV business is also threatened by the internet) they want to change those "rules" in order for the old business models to work in the new world. That means taking away the freedom of the internet, essentially taxig data on it.
It is our (the public's) very important interest to stop them from doing so because the internet is a facility. Like other services such as electricity and water supply, it creates far more value than the cost of its maintenance. Everybody would laugh if electric companies wanted to collect extra money from all the businesses that use power. The same should be true when it comes to telcos.
The reason why I oppose Apple's policy is because it does the same thing: taxing data on "its" devices. Furthermore, their locked down devices are a great help for carriers to impose restrictions on users. Apple is gladly helping them.
Google, on the other hand fully shares the public interest of free and open internet. Their intention with Android is to push smarthone prices down to a level where subsidies become irrelevant, taking the control over mobile devices out of the hands of the telcos.
@Captain
I fail to see how Apple is "taxing data on its devices" simply because they want all apps approved through their store. I can also do all of the ota syncing on the iphone that any android phone can. Apple may in fact, be using the app store to get "its cut", but that does not affect me in the least, except for the fact that I have many more apps to choose from, good quality or not. Apple's control has provided me with a better experience overall, of course this may not be your experience, ymmv.
Also, Google may appear that they are fully interested in free and open internet, but trust me, they are a corp. just like Apple and they have their motives just like any other. Also, I have never heard about this intention they have to reduce smartphone prices or reduce or eliminate subsidies, which to this point has not occurred, and I guarantee it's not going to occur due to an operating system.
@JNGold
an "Opinion" is defined as "A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof" as seen on http://www.answers.com/topic/opinion
Captain is stating his opinion on why he would not purchase an apple product. There is no reason to besmirch anyone for there opinion, there is no reason for research when an opinion is given. I have an opinion that Apple products are designed well and work well together however are highly overpriced and would not do what I want them to do. However the price is not the reason I would not purchase an apple product, the company itself is the reason and how closed they have made the system. Therefore it is not for me. No research went into that it is my opinion all I had to do is look at what I see going on. Now I am not saying that the product is bad in anyway, it just doesn't work for me and I happen to agree with Captain on a lot of what he said. Just remember it is only a phone and people have there own opinions about it.
BTW: it was a good article and as unbiased as you can get from someone that has used an Iphone for over 3 years and going to a different O/S. TY for the comparisons and the videos. My friend was the same way, but he couldn't stand AT&T. If the IPhone was on a different carrier he would still have one.
@JP
You say apple is taking its cut. This is exaclty what I meant under "taxing". The rules they're forcing on their customers, like preventing their devices from installing apps from the outside, forcing their customers to use itunes, banning apps with "duplicate functionality" from the appstore, banning flash, are all serving that purpose. The arguments, such as "user experience", that Apple often refers to when asked about these restrictions are weak excuses. The superior user experience of the iphone is mostly due to its well designed user interface and well written code. If they allowed installing apps from the outside or if any app -other than malware- could make it into the appstore then things would be different, but the lack of those two proves to me that they are "evil". Even if I didn't want to use any features other the officially available, I wouldn't buy an iPhone.
Google is a also a corporation, but the majority of shares are in the hands of three people, the two founders and the CEO. You can see from their business moves that they are willfully directing Google into a direction where their interests are not in conflict with their users'. This is what "don't be evil" is all about.
@Captain,
You obviously feel very passionate about how closed minded Apple is. I can understand this. Hope you do this much research with the thousands of other companies out there that are much worse, yet we still use them all the time.
For me, I don't give a rat's rear end how developers are affected. More developers are whining and moaning in the same breath you are all the while taking bigger checks to the bank than Android has provided thus far, and I have some really great apps because of it. Let's face it, openness in the computer realm has never provided anything of true value. You can argue linux, and it has it's place, but there's a reason they are where they are. When profit isn't involved, we don't want to spend the money to make improvements. It's a fact of life. The actual product (iPhone) is as good and works as well as any Android device for the consumer. However you are just working on principle, I can see that.
@Captain
Given your reasons, I assume you also do not own a pc, xbox, playstation, or nintendo. Let me think of more companies...
@JP
Apple is not the only company. I feel the same way about console makers though I don't blame them for trying to stop piracy. I know that a product, be it software or a hardware, has to make profit for its manufacturer. The problem is when the company wants to squeeze every cent from its customers and when they tend to hurt them for a tiny, negligible fraction of their income.
I think this strategy not only harms the user but bad for the company in the long run as well. The best example is Mac versus Windows PC. Steve Jobs apparently hasn't learned his lesson.
Don't mix openness with "open source". MacOS, Windows and Linux are both open products. Although the level of openness may differ, you can achieve practically anything with them.
The openness of MacOSX is the bare minimum I expect from an operating system.
google "Samsung kies". its an app samsung created to compete with iTunes but for some reason it is not licensed in America. simply tell Samsungs website that u are Canadian and it will let u download it. (though u will need to change the language selection from French. Canadian to English)
I've had to delete or edit far too many comments, people apparently still can't play nice. Comments closed.
Thank you for your article! I've been thinking of going Android, and though it's still up in the air, this piece helped me compare. Thank you!