Samsung wants iPhones and 3G iPads banned in the Netherlands
Samsung has already sued Apple over patent infringements and now they're attempting to get a full out ban of iPhones and 3G iPads in the Netherlands. They've sued Apple on infringement of four patents and not only want a ban but a full retail recall of any device that uses 3G technology.
The patents involved are standards-essential patents. They are incorporated as internationally excepted standards and the patent holder (Samsung) is obligated to grant licenses to third parties. Florian Mueller, an active patent consultant, believes that an injunction won't happen unless Apple refuses to pay up if royalties are owed to Samsung.
“Should it turn out that Apple entered the market without taking licenses to essential patents, then that’s indefensible and Apple should pay,” ..."However, it doesn’t justify an abuse of standards-essential patents. Asking for an injunction is an abuse unless the request for the injunction is limited to the scenario in which the defendant doesn’t accept to pay FRAND royalties.”
Samsung may be growing more aggressive with Apple due to the fact that Apple has taken some of their display business elsewhere. Apple was Samsung's number two customer last year so that could have a lot to do with why Samsung hasn't filed patent suits in the past.
But at the end of the day Apple will probably just pay the royalties if ordered to and there will still be iPhones and iPads equipped with 3G for all.
Jailbreak, Mod, and DIY editor at iMore, Founder of PXLFIX, Potter pundit, the ninja in your iOS.
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Does anyone else get the feeling that Samsung took a calculated risk that they had enough patents to deter Apple from suing them for copying designs and Apple called there bluff? It seems like Samsung believes they'll make more money on selling hardware that closely resembles Apples than they will loose in court. The way they are fighting so hard seems to confirm that.
Yeah I'm a fanboy, although I try to keep level-headed. Although I still get the "arr Samsung is an evil corporation that's trying to rip off Apple's success and dickheading their way around... grrr" feeling
not sure if that's just me xD
I think most South Korea Companies do a similar thing. That has been the basis for their growth. Unlike Japan that would take an idea and refine and improve on it the Korean companies merely attempt to copy the technology as best it can and hope that they fly under the radar.
Actually that's how the Japanese economic miracle occurred. They copied shamelessly and now say they never did any such thing. Once they'd built up their industry enough and had their own IPs they wanted to protect, they grew up and joined the rest of the world - at least in terms of intellectual property law.
just like apple who claim to invent everything and never copy others right
I like The Netherlands, have been to Amsterdam and Rotterdam and have a couple of Dutch friends. But what is Samsung thinking trying to block Apple in The Netherlands. It is a country of 16.5 Million people. Not exactly a market that will kill Apple's business. Can anyone explain their strategy to me other than to be as litigious as possible?
Possibly because it's a major shipping hub for distribution through Europe. If something is banned from entering the country that would likely also mean it couldn't be shipped through the country.
I'm pretty sure that the capital cities of Europe all have their own international air terminals. (Of course, I could be wrong here.)
When I said shipping I actually meant by ship.
Samsung must have major political pull there, like in Korea. They basically own a lot of politicians... if not a full half of them in Korea... so they can steamroll anything they like in their "democracy". It's a capitalist country, in essence... but it's still Asia folks.
"Samsung may be growing more aggressive with Apple due to the fact that Apple has taken some of their display business elsewhere."
Or because Apple is trying to pull off a "look and feel" suit by submitting what turn out to be exaggerated/photoshopped mock-ups against Samsung to stifle competition...
see how apple are saying these are basic patents but th phone and tablet design which is essentially a rectangle with a screen is deemed not basic by apple fans...
I think the whole entire patent infringement and suing thing is getting straight up stupid. Eventually us, the consumers, will be paying for the lawyers these companies hired to handle these litigations. As far as physical design of these devices I don't think Samsung blatantly copied Apple's devices. The physical design is pretty simple anyway, a flat slab with couple buttons on the bottom. I went from the iPhone 4 to the Infuse 4G for about two weeks. UI elements were definitely copied and I hated the sloppiness of the UI (except for the Live Wallpaper, that I was a pretty cool feature), and the battery life was horrendous. I tried one of the new Blackberry 7 phones (the 9810) next. The OS was much improved from my Curve 8330 days but the keyboard sucked so I went back to my trusty iPhone 4. Anyway, these companies need to just push innovation and develop great products..........maybe we would have to wait over a year and a half for the next iPhone...
I think Apple brought this on themselves. Now they just made Samsung mad. And now Samsung is out to do anything to harm apple. And i expect pretty much everywhere they can they'll sue Apple over it's iphone 5. And when the iphone 5 gets announced there's going to be suits filed to enjoin sale of iphones 5s.
FRAND = "Fair, Reasonable, and Non-Discriminatory"
Basic technology patents are encumbered by FRAND terms. Samsung can't single out a competitor, like Apple, and expect to win an injunction against iPhone 5 or any other Apple product. The new Samsung lawsuit is just posturing. Public relations.
if samsung has one valid patent an it's in one apple product Samsung is well with in it's rights to sue in every single jurisdiction in the world. That is not discriminatory in any way. And there is never no obligation to sue everyone.
FRAND, Fair, Reasonable, and Non-discriminatory as I read it, is a licensing requirement not an enforcement requirement. It is a principal that says when a license is granted that a license must be granted in a manner that has fair terms (one side can't be taken advantage of), reasonable terms (can't charge a trillion dollars), and can't be discriminatory, that is for one but not others. That is so that, say for example, imagine samsung patents new touchscreen technology, and will license it to everyone but HTC. That is discriminatory. That is about how a company GRANTS a licensing as far as i know. Samsung however would be not be disputing or engaging in granting of a license, it would be arguing no that they never granted a license at all. They are seeking enforcement. That's a wholly different thing then what you refer to. For FRAND to be relevant you'd need a situation like Apple suing Samsung for refusing to grant a license to only Apple.
Lastly i said what i think would happen, ie a suit. I didn't predict an outcome or say they would win. In fact there's very little chance of prevailing in the U.S. nor would apple likely prevail in its suit to ban 10.1 tablets in the u.s. Germany is different.
If they have valid patents they should sue, but if these are necessary for the functioning of mobile phone they have to licence them reasonably.
@DiamondDNice the main idea is that the patents are basic technology patents that must be licensed and in a fair way. If Samsung only has these patents, as seems to be the case, they are just suing for show because Apple will (or has) paid the royalties. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple countersues for damages incurred by the lawsuit.
apple has not paid loyalties or even licensed it cause if that was the case then samsung could not bring this up.
...that assumes Apple has offerred to pay FRAND terms. The earlier Nokia suit (since settled) suggests that Apple does not.
A little royalty here, a little royalty there, cost of doing business, life in the big city. Apple already pays licensing fees for umpteen generic technologies. Just like everyone else (except Google for Java, but that's another story.)
But not being able to sell Galaxy Tabs is lost business. And losing Apple display and CPU contracts is even bigger lost business. See what you did there, Samsung?
not gonna say it doesn't matter but Samsung is a massive company and makes a hell of a lot more then computer components. They build ships, super tankers, oil platforms, whole shipyards etc, http://www.shi.samsung.co.kr/eng/ they build buildings, and bridges, http://www.secc.co.kr/eng/html/index.asp They build the Burj Dubai and that big one in Singapore for example, They build washers, dryers, fridges, tvs, stereos, cameras, cell phones, computers, laptops, and on and on. I think they even build power plants and wind farms.
Apple makes like 20 products total, i'm not saying it wouldn't hurt but i'm betting Samsung is like, "We are massive. We don't really give a fuck. about one contract. For screens and memory."
I'm not saying they are right to feel that way but I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung is like we're not gonna let some phone company from America push us around in public. We'll push back.
I think what he's saying is that they lost more business losing Apple contracts versus losing the Galaxy Tab. Like as you said, they are a massive company, and Apple is a massive-er consumer for their chips and such versus the people who are going to buy Galaxy Tabs in wherever it was that they are banned.
And even though they are so big, they are a business and should do what interests them best overal.
I'm still trying to figure out what "excepted standards" are....
While this is blatant retaliation, there is a difference between the cases of Apple Vs Samsung conerning look and feel and what will become Samsung Vs Apple over the ability to receive email while making a phone call.
I thought when I first read the initial reports that the wording implied that it was while 3G was in use. Now because of how they have postured that they want to block and reverse the sale of Apple devices that utilize 3G in the Netherlands that this is the case.
Unfortunately, for Samsung, Apple can prove that it is not breaching a patent held by Samsung that their phone merely multitasks and that it is the ability to use voice and data simultaneously merely because the GSM networks are allowing this action.
It is provable because they also produce for the Verizon and other CDMA markets a version of the same devices and the CDMA blocks the same function. Not because of a specific change in the software but merely because the network blocks the data. This is the difference between the versions of iOS, the version running on CDMA phones detects this inability and asks if you want to drop the data connection when a call comes in. It does though continue to work as normal when an alternate data stream is available ie a WiFi connection.
Therefore they are not using any specific function that is any different from any other device that multitasks, their email service ie Blackberry.
So Samsung should be posturing against any GSM carriers and demand the blocking of simultaneous data and voice.
and apple should be posturing for banning all tablets that are rectangle with a screen
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I just paíd $ 23.86 for an iTouch and my girlfriend loves her Canon PowerShot S95 that we got for $41.56 there arriving tomorrow by UPS.No need to pay those expensive retail prices ever again.. Especially when I also sold a 42 inch HD-TV to my boss for $655 which only cost me $ 62.84 to buy. Here is the link we use to get it all from http://alturl.com/y96im
At least Apple doesn't have apples scattered all over their iPad/pods/phones. Stupid looking aliens annoy me!
Samsung is soooo FULL of CRAP, here's more proof of their copying ways: http://allthingsd.com/20110923/what-are-apples-icons-doing-on-samsungs-wall-of-apps/ I'm now personally boycotting all products from Samsung!