Regarding Apple deleting threads from discussion groups

The internet is abuzz with news that Apple has deleted discussion threads involving the Consumer Reports tests concerning iPhone 4 antenna issues.

Apple routinely deletes threads from when their main purpose is to complain about Apple or Apple products. The moderators seem to act as though the forums are for people asking questions and getting answers, and not just piling on complaints. Since there's no freedom of speech on someone else's dime, that's the way it goes. There are plenty of other forums on the internet where you can complain away about Apple issues to your heart's content -- including TiPb's own iPhone forums.

(You're better off using to send in complaints anyway, there's no indication holds any weight with Apple when it comes to issue tracking.)

The internet buzz concerning the thread removals is important for one reason, however -- it shows how sensitive customers are to the antenna issue. Never mind that Consumer Reports said they couldn't recommend iPhone 4 in one sentence then named it the best smartphone on the planet in another. Never mind we still don't know how many people have the problem. Never mind that other phones have the same problem albeit to lesser degrees. Never mind that Apple's historic misrepresentation of signal strength might be exacerbating the issue, as could AT&T's network. Never mind anything else.

The antenna issue has become a matter of public perception now and that's a huge problem for Apple. The mainstream media has their teeth in it now. They smell blood. The open letter and its contents clearly weren't enough this time. As brilliant as they are in marketing, handling customer-facing problems is their kryptonite. MobileMe's initial launch might have been the goofy red kind of kryptonite. They finally acted, they finally fixed it. This might be the green kind of kryptonite. The kind that hurts.

Have something to say about this story? Leave a comment! Need help with something else? Ask in our forums!

Rene Ritchie

EiC of iMore, EP of Mobile Nations, Apple analyst, co-host of Debug, Iterate, Vector, Review, and MacBreak Weekly podcasts. Cook, grappler, photon wrangler. Follow him on Twitter and Google+.

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Reader comments

Regarding Apple deleting threads from discussion groups


I think it'll take more than a few random emails from Jobs on this one. Apple needs to take this more seriously.
If Consumer Reports (which is worthless IMO) thinks the problem is easily solved by free bumpers, then i think the solution should be obvious for Apple.
Apple has done more in the past by giving itunes credits after lowering prices on phones. Time to give away some Bumpers and get media like CR back in line.

So who are you to try and mediate what the real purpose of the forums are for. I swear you guys are so defensive to this company and their antics. I've read some the posts about the CR before they were deleted. I didn't see anything wrong the discussions. You "Rene" and all the other apple fanboys are the reason why we are in the position we in now (apple can't admit to anything bc you guys are always trying to take up for them). Apple is not doing anything so what else are we to do. Oh "JUST BUY A CASE I GUESS" and not make Apple ever own up to anything. RIDICULOUS!!!

@apple2382 I agree. I'm an apple fan but don't drink the kool-aid. I have an iPhone and love it (3GS)and a macbook pro. At this point, lets call a spade a spade. Admit there is a hardware issue and fix the problem, not with a software update. For me personally, a free plastic junk bumper wont do it. I don't want to pay for a beautifully crafted device and then have to cover it up in order for it to function correctly. FAIL.

Yep I completely agree. Rene you are a fan boy. I love this site and the information it gives me. BUT I want the information to be unbioust. Meaning if there is something seriously wrong with the phone say it like it is (there is a problem) there is no need to fight apples battle. You fanboys defend apple so much you hurt yourselves and those who want great products. Look windows even made a new OS windows 7 because they where getting so much bad press over it being out dated. Android is improving because they listen to feed back and you as a site need to give the right type of feed back to your loyal readers.

"Since there’s no freedom of speech on someone else’s dime, that’s the way it goes."
Very well said.
If you don't like what Apple does with their forums, go elsewhere. It isn't like there is a lack of places to whine on the web.
Next people are going to cry foul at Twitter's 140 character limit as an abridgment of freedom of speech.

This kind of kryptonite should hurt. While there will no doubt be legions of fans here that maintain this is not a problem, every source - user, blogger, magazine, lab - that has tested and described their methodology has found significant signal attenuation. (I can reproduce it at will on my iPhone 4, though not when in a case, and other tipb readers confirmed it when they tried the same methods.)
There is a legitimate engineering flaw here, and Apple deserves to be criticized for it's design, or at least for not applying some nonconductive coating.
Apple's handling of the complaints has range from poor to shockingly poor, from the initial denials to the short "hold different" responses to the (alleged) leaked customer service instructions, and then finally identifying the problem as miscalculating bars from signal strength, when the display of the bars had nothing to do with measurable differences in signal strength and data speeds. Moreover, their wording (we were stunned to find...) makes it seem an outright lie and leaves them even more open to mainstream ridicule, as the statement sounds like nothing so much as Claude Rains in Casablanca, when he was "shocked, shocked" to find gambling in the establishment.
Short-term, Apple will face no problems; sales are still through the roof. But Apple's design mistake and continuous poor response are allowing a ding in Apple's aura of quality to form in the public eye, and that, they have to address, on both the engineering and PR fronts, before that reputation starts to harden. Simply put, they screwed up in both areas, and deleting forum posts will not restore that lost luster.

Apple never owns up to anything because theyre Apple. Simple as that, its always how theyve done things and this is nothing new. TIPB has done nothing to anyone to call them out as you attempt to.
Whether you see nothing wrong or not, as the article correctly states, there is no freedom of speech on the grounds of a company. Its their site, their servers, and they can control the content to whatever extent they like. Free speech is protection from the GOVERNMENT restricting your speech and ONLY the government.
Finally, I dont take CR for as far as I could throw them. ANY media outlet has their self interests and skew findings to fit their agendas- be it politics, advertisers, personal feelings of the writers, etc. I take CR's report with a HUGE grain of salt as not all people's phones are seeing these issues.

To the people calling Rene a fanboy get over yourselves. If he was such a fanboy your comments would have been deleted, no?
Get a grip.

Jeez all you people with the fanboy talk need to chill out. The forum he is talking about is the technical support forum. The subject of the CR report isn't really a technical issue is it? Rene was just clearing up what the purpose of the forum was for so that everyone will chill out and quit jumping to conclusions. Yea there is a antenna problem and it needs fixed. No I'm not defending apple they need to fix it. It happens with my iPhone 4. Bu all you people are whining and crying way too much. And just because someone does defend apple about something does not make them a fanboy.

I have an iPhone 4. I have not had a single issue with signal loss w/ my bumper on it. ALL the reports have said that the issue is easily solved by adding a case, or some sort of insulation.
Is it maybe possible that people just want Apple to admit that they made a mistake? I like Apple - I really do - but I'll admit, it would be some sort of satisfying to hear them formally admit to making a mistake.

Well just like there are rules for TiPb forums there are rules in Apple's forums. It is clearly stated that those forums are for user to user technical support and any discussion of topics that aren't looking for help will be removed. I've had posts removed that I thought were either helping or a question but Apple didn't agree.
I can't believe all the people saying the CR report is worthless also...CR is not some off the wall tech blog or mainstream media corporation. They do not have ads in their magazine, they do not accept free products to review, they do not allow their recommendations to be used to sell products. What agenda do they have exactly?

@jk his friends call him a fan boy in thier podcast. There is nothing wrong with being a fan boy. Let him delete it he wants. I just want him to be fair, just call the press like it is without a spin.

There's nothing wrong with Consumer Report's agenda except that they target the average consumer or the lowest common denominator. So, they can't recommend the iPhone 4 but they can recommend the 3GS. Seriously, would anyone here choose the 3GS over the iPhone 4 + a case even to save $100? I'm sure they are reviewing the iPhone 4 as a phone, first, but not everyone uses it that way.
As far as Apple PR goes, this is the downside of using the media for all of the free marketing for the iPad and iPhone 4 and whatever else Apple does. Every flaw becomes water-cooler news just as every feature is, also. Fortunately, there might not be any bad PR if it gets people into the stores to look at your device if for nothing other than curiosity's sake.

Whatever everyone wants to make the issue worse than it is, good work. I have had one dropped call since getting my iPhone on launch day and it wasn't because I held it wrong and I don't have a case. There's no way to even tell how big the problem is, so many people comment about it that don't even own a iPhone it's like a party for Android fanboys. Yes Apple is handling it poorly and it will definitely hurt them over time, people won't forget it. But all I can say is the iPhone works great for me, maybe if will free up some bandwidth on AT&T for me. 

Ah, Rene. Ever so zealous to defend Apple, despite the fact that the phone obviously has an issue. Nice attempt at deflecting with the "but they said it was the best phone!" btw It's funny that you neglected to mention that other phones that seemingly have similar issues didn't have the CEO bragging about the design as a revolutionary thing to hit a phone. Or said CEO telling someone to hold the phone differently. Or the fact that, well, their problem is nowhere near as notable as this. Apple messed up. Their deleting of discussions regarding this article only adds fuel to the fire. Why the hell can't you even admit that gasp Apple isn't perfect?
You fail, Rene. In so many ways. But, hey, at least your articles keep my attention. Your attempt at futility is amusing to no ends. It's like watching a cockroach trying to get up after it's been knocked on its back. You must be so pissed off and butthurt that the Iphone 4 is undergoing such flak. Oh well.. at least you have the other Kool-aid drinkers with you. :D

It is obvious that Apple is going to do what they want to do. If you don't like it please take the phone back and stop complaining. I am sure that many of the people complaining here and on the forums bought the phone after this issue came to light.
I understand being disappointed in the quality of the product, but Apple owes no one an explanation. They only need to offer a refund. The only explanation that is owed is to the stockholders.
In sum, if you don't like it=take it back. If you want to hurt a company threaten their bottom line.

Mintoreo. He's not so much defending apple as he's reminding everyone of the TOS of apples forum and the purpose it is there for. Before you go off on your childish rant you head over to the SUPPORT forums and read the tos.
Colonel angus, I bought a lemon? This has been the best phone I have ever owned. Yea I have the signal problem but it's not a big deal.
You guys come to these forums and just whine and cry and try to make people mad and all it really does is make us laugh. At least me. Grow up and get a girlfriend. Don't go to a site that is meant for a product you may not like. Simple as that.

or nevermind that their design was just flawed from the get go? I like how sites like this really show their fanboyism and ignore the obvious fact that this was just a design flaw...and a pretty big "duh" one at that. The fact that they had a job posted the same day of the complaints for new antennae engineers more than likely means people lost their job, but this was an issue they knew existed before they launched the device, hence the stupid ass overpriced Bumper cases. The fact is that this is a design flaw and I think people are just amazed at Steve's responses in that there is no flaw and we just need to hold our phone different. Get off the dude's dick and realize this was just a big screw up and that the only 'fix' is a new design.

It might be an issue. And Apple could certainly take it more seriously.
But the fact remains its the best phone i've ever used.

It really shows what kind of a company Apple is, their engineers and QA testers screw up and then make users spend an extra $30 for a <$1 item to "fix" the problem. Then by contrast you have Verizon/HTC who has had to push back release of their DRIOD Incredible for weeks because of low screen availability from their supplier. They end up giving their customers a $25 gift card to apologize for the wait.
Apple really doesn't seem to care about the customers.

CR cannot be totally trusted, they were in bed with Toyota for over 10 years, ignoring, or glossing over, reports of problems from subscribers.
But there is problem with iPhone4 and it's antenna. I have had one for three weeks with no problem, if used with a case. But today we bought my wife one at Best Buy and could not get it to operate as a phone, would not read the SIM card, after 2hours on the phone with AT&T and Apple we finally swapped the SIM cards on my phone with hers and it was the new phone.. Took it back and got another, it read the SIM ok but kept getting "no service" while laying close to my phone which had 4 & 5 bars. Took it back and got her old 3GS activated. Will wait until problems are solved before getting another one.
That said I still like my new iPhone4, it is a big improvement over the 3GS. And my wife is envious.

The internet buzz concerning the thread removals is important for one reason, however — it shows how sensitive customers are to the antenna issue.

Customers Rene? Customers are sensitive?
It seems rather obvious that APPLE is a tad more sensitive than the customers.
The customers are still flocking in droves. But Apple is the party in full denial and attempting to silence customers.

Hey Rene, don't you even begin to warrant a response for half these dim-witted readers. You're an excellent blogger, and after reading the majority of these topics, I seriously doubt either most of these people have nor graduated college, taken upper lever literary courses, have bad people skills, or become perfect while on the Internet. They seem to don't know how to correctly read and interpret an article and it's author's objective.
No one here is a fanboy. Rene has admitted the iPhone 4 has problems. He has acknowledged that Apple has failed to issue an appropriate response. And so have I. Yes my iPhone 4 has a minor death grip problem, ok? That isn't what this post is about. This post was to raise awareness to the fact Apple has been removing CR discussions from it's forums. Relating the fact that CR has highly praised the iPhone 4 and now criticized it, is just that, stating a fact. Geez you people need to open your minds up to more than Need for Speed: Carbon and i OS4 jailbreaks. That is all.....
Keep up the good work

I think that the press is taking it a little too far and the people bashing Rene. The blog Is called the iPhone blog. No crap he's a fan boy. Bottom line, anyone having problems has been publically welcomed to return their phone to an apple store. Simple as that. I do feel bad for the people who are having that issue, but I don't have it. So just like any other consumer item, everything has a return policy. If it's that big of a deal, just return it because the call quality wasn't what you expected. People who own smart phones, aren't exactly smart if they're going to whine and moan about things they have complete control over. Like what phone they use.

Less than 1% of people complaining, that's the real truth. It's not a major issue, just an issue.
Take your phone back and sod off to the Andriod world if you don't like it. The other 2 million of us will enjoy our new phones...

"There are plenty of other forums on the internet where you can complain away about Apple issues to your heart’s content — including TiPb’s own iPhone forums."
interesting. cause at Precentral it's basically illegal to speak ill about the pre or mention the EVO or Iphone lest you get your post merged into a massive Pre vs fill in the blank thread. designed to pretty much quash any negative discussion.

I have an iPhone 4 and the problem does happen. It is very easy to kill the signal and not just the bars, you can really stop the Internet, kill calls and stop text messages. I have had every iPhone but the first and it is the best one I have had in other ways, but this is unacceptable! I have never had to complain to them until now and they treated me like I didn't matter, so I will not be getting another one, everyone else is catching up and so my next smartphone will not be an iPhone. That's the only thing they understand. The pocketbook

Completely agree. That was the first thing I thought of when hearing about the removals —Apple's a business, they're ultimate goal is to sell their products. Therefore, why wouldn't they remove negative threads, I would.
The "Never mind..." statements should also be taken into account by the mainstream media. Although, I guess that's why they call them the "drive-by media".
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple really fumbled the PR ball on this one. Their letter was just ridiculous. I don't think they ever imagined that the antenna issue would ever get this kind of attention, so they thought their BSish letter would suffice.
If I were Apple I'd immediately issue a statement, taking full responsibility for the issue. They should be as transparent as possible with the actions they plan on taking; although, transparency is the orange in Apples and Oranges.
Apple should immediately offer free bumpers to anyone who has, or will, purchase an iPhone 4, as a temporary fix for the issue. Then, they should begin a recall: promptly coming up with a hardware fix, then having all iPhone 4 customers go to their local Apple Store and swap their iPhone for the updated build.
Who knows how Apple's gonna handle this. It'll certainly be interesting to see how things unfold, though.

...and yet for every iPhone returned by some disgruntled customer there's already 100 people waiting in line to take it off them.
Even after the so called "death grip" reports they are still selling out stock.
Like I said, you're in the minority, not the majority.
I also question why people come on here and say "I can easily kill calls and the internet by making sure I precisly place my fingers in the exact location."
Well STOP doing it then and use it normally and enjoy it instead of trying to make it stop working.
Guess what, if you take the SIM card out it stops working too...

Its still no excuse. I understand Rene you feel compelled to defend them for every little thing, but enough is enough. No other company needs this much defending. It is almost every day you are on here trying to cover up what Apple has done. It's not that I hate you for it, I don't I justt feel bad you have to do it and I don't think Apple deserves extra credit for the continuous crap they pull.

^^ by this logic you're essentially saying the following:
customer: but Apple, my phone can't make phone calls
Steve: then stop making phone calls and just stare at it

"The moderators seem to act as though the forums are for people asking questions and getting answers"
Weird idea isn't it? Oh wait, that is the stated rationale behind the forums. What kind of fool assumes any rational company would host forums and allow users to fill the threads with negative comments. They are self help forums, not soapboxes for critics. This is a particularly silly issue to get indignant about.
The hardware issue is another matter. I don't have the problem with my iPhone, knock on wood, but if I did I wouldn't waste my time posting bile across the internet. I would either exchange the unit or return it for a refund. Apple did mishandle this one, no question. They should have just bit the bullet and offered free bumpers alongside every phone.

It is a big problem for me, even with a bumper, not in just one position but at various points around the phone. "Just don't hold it that way" doesn't work when you have to constantly juggle the phone and pay more attention to how you are holding the phone than what you are using it for. I could get a different phone .. but there are none out there I like, I have spent a lot of money on apps and android is still way to immature as a platform to jump ship on yet. So, i will put up with it BUT after this I'm fed up with the sh*t apple pulls, and the first chance to jump to android i'll take it. Asking you to wait another year for a notification system is beyond a joke. I used to defend apple, but my relationship has soured and THAT is the problem they are going to have. Louis Grey is posted on Daring Fireball, and the article has sentiments that I am starting to agree with as much as I hate to admit it.

It CAN make phone calls, you need to place your fingers in a very specific location on the phone to reduce the signal strength to the point it might drop the call.
I haven't dropped a call yet, it doesn't affect everyone, and if it did effect me I'd stop trying to make it drop calls and use it in a way that didn't make it drop calls.
That's exactly what SJ meant when he advised people to "hold it differently".
You can carry on whinging about it and try for your free $25 bumper or you could, shock , actually try and do something about it yourself.
The 3rd alternative is take it back to the shop, geta full refund, and STFU!
Some people are obviously masochists...

@Zero Credibility;
Are you sure it's not the fact you already have a VERY weak signal in the first place? Have you got another phone on the same network in the same locatiion to do an objective test, or are you just assuming it's an iPhone4 issue?

yeah i am in a low signal area. I have an 2G iphone which is usually 5 bars, where the ip4 is usually 3bars. I also get full bars on my n95 8GB. If i place something metallic "near" the ip4 it can bottom out and loose connection whilst not touching it. I can replicate the deathgrip problem on my 2G but it only goes down to 2 bars from 5 and data is fine. But on my ip4 it fluctuates from between 1-5 bars without even touching it.. and when you hold it, anywhere , it drops data and calls by bottoming out.

Apple deleting threads that are complaining instead of asking questions isn't that bad. Do you think it shows that they're ignoring the number of issues? Obviously they aren't ignoring them, or they wouldn't be deleting them. They are probably sticking to their guns.

You idiots accusing Rene of being a "fanboy" want to see a fanboy? Go find a mirror?
Is there a problem? Hell yes there is. However, this sort of rhetoric will only fan the flames. Rene might support Apple but he isn't looking at this from the eyes of the fanboy. The Droid Army on here, however, have become militant fanboys. Go back to Android Central if you want to do that sort of thing... I've had it.

Yeah really messed up, that's why there's still a backlog on orders, because all those people want a messed up design.
Or maybe it just doesn't affect as many people as the hype is making out.
I love the design, works great for me.

@ Zero Credibility;
I suggest you take it back then as you may have a faulty unit, it does seem quite extreme the problems you're experiencing.
I live in a weak signal area and get better signal on my 4 than I did on either my 3G or 3Gs.

Rene man i give u guys crap all the time and ur a fanboy but honestly its why i come to this site u keep my hope for apple products high as iam not really an apple lover i only own iphones but let me say iam sorry for all the bashing you took for this story you really dont deserve it we all now the problem if we dont like it just take it back simple as that

I'm just as mad as the next person about the antenna issue, but it's Apple's site and Apple's forum rules (read them) and all the threads that have been deleted have broken the rules. Like it or not (and I don't) they can delete anything that breaks the forum rules.
Again, if you feel the phone doesn't function for you as you think it should, return it. Remember, there are millions who are happy with it. We all have a choice. Let's just move on already.

Well hey, the more people will buy it, the louder our voices will be heard. Even the OS is messed up. Why can't my dang iOS 4 iPod, thats just 2 feet away from my wifi point vary with bars from 3 down to none and cut me off when my Pre and Evo all stay steady with the full bars same place. I really do hope the software fix will fix that at least, I want a reliable wifi connection!

@Mpehisto, I don't see how it can since the same iPod had great signal before updating to iOS 4. I'll be looking forward to the newer iPods released later this year.

Did you do an upgrade or a complete restore?
There has been reports of odd issues that come about after upgrades. I'd do a full restore of your iPod to see if that fixes it. I've got a iTouch3 running iOS4 and that's fine.

From a PR standpoint, Apple needs to own up to the problem, stop trying to make excuses, issue a free Bumper case or $30.00 credit, and move on to another improved version: iPhone 4.1 that doesn't have the problem.

Although I have not had this problem in either strong or weak signal areas (with or without a case) , I would like to know some information. Does the test CR used actually reflect real life call drops and, of course, for the numerous people that claim this issue as real, why is it happening? Perhaps some people have different conductivity in their hands.... I don't know, but as a scientist and tech geek, I'm curious.
I don't find Apple's responses surprising at all, and if you do, you obviously don't know much about Apple. While I use my Linux computers more than a Mac and definitely more than a doze machine , I find my iPhone 3G and iPhone4 to be problem free. I love the UI, quality of calls, and speed. Oh and it's beauty.
This is all exciting though isn't it? Media vs consumer vs competition vs hearsay vs apple ... Who will win? How do you know who wins? Are you really going to give up your phone if Apple wins?

I did a complete restore and set up as new iPod because I seen the horror stories of just doing a plain update and I didn't want that. Its just the wifi problem. I can go on being wifi free with my iPod for now (Use my evo for that), that should hold me over to the new iPod later this year and I'm praying to see a new 64GB model.

So, this is new news? People have been complaining for years now about terrible signal strength, dropped calls, and (overall) bad phone talk quality. Perhaps it isn't the phones fault - perhaps the phone is an actual representation of AT&T's ACTUAL service.
No, I am not a scorned AT&T customer - I haven't had a single problem with them. I am just pointing out that people have been complaining about this since DAY ONE.

This is why I focus on tipb for news, not sites like techcrunch that grab onto issues like simple forum deleting and fly it like we're nearing the end of time. If I walked into a company and hung a sign that says "waaah, your product sucks" I'd expect them to take it down. We moderate our own forums much the same way... if some uber annoyed customer or annoying Fandroid wants freedom of speech there are dozens of blogs out there with the intent on knocking Apple down.. why, becuase its the best and apparently its not cool to support US companies that do well.
All the same you do cover the idea that Apple does need to do something. Hopefully soon.

Funny, didn't Consumer Reports give the iPhone it's highest ratings for a phone just 10 days earlier? What's their motivation other than to make news for Consumer Reports.

How is that a fanboy article? Rene is saying Apple is bad at fixing customer complaints.
Freedom of speech? Really? People are gonna go there? Either buy a bumper or return the phone and stop crying about it.

Ummm this is standard for forums for a company you idiots.
You guys realize that Blizzard does this as well for the WoW forums?
go ahead wow players, try to make a post on the general forums bashing the game, include facts if you like in your forum post. it WILL get deleted.

@Joe McG
Thanks for pointing that out.
I get tired of all these people b itching anything Apple. If you don't like the product or if it doesn't work for you, then return it, go Android, shove your head in a toilet, or whatever.

Rene, don't reduce yourself to apologist-Chad's lows. The paragraph where most sentences start with "never mind" was completely unnecessary. I think it is clear that CR tests show that all iPhones are affected by this issue (they tested several handsets), that this issue is clearly an engineering problem that is easily reproducible in a controlled environment, and they specifically note that other handsets tested did not exhibit the same problem which flies in the face of your statements. Discourse and discussion is OK, but don't misinform.

@zero credibility
I am having the same issues as you were stating to @Mephisto. I have dropped, since launch day, reasonably more than 30 calls. I do talk a moderate amount on the phone (compared to most) but I cannot stand this thing anymore! It's like a bad girlfriend, I want to get rid of it SO bad, but love it so much. Haha!
But in all seriousness, my problems seem worse than most, yet it still seems like a serious issue that I just can't avoid. I've tried "holding it properly" and have still dropped calls. I've tried a restore along with other things - none of which seem to work... and I REFUSE to use a case... I hate them.
At the same time, I'm totally with you on the Android statement. I'd love to jump ship but iOS4 and the iPhone 4 run remarkable compared to the Android phones I've used. I seem to be let down in one category or another and I really don't think an Android phone could possibly live up to what my iPhone's have held for the past 3 years for me.
With all of this said, @zero credibility are you getting your's replaced? Did you just explain all your problems to them and they were cool with it? Like I said, I feel my problems are worse than other's so I'd like to think it's maybe the phone?! :-/

People, it's a phone/gadget that you paid a few hundred bucks for. If you're unhappy with it, then return it and get something else. It's not like a politician that we made a buying mistake on, or a "moneypit" house. I like mine well enough to keep even if it is not 100% perfection.

I understand that this is an Apple loving website but please call a spade a spade, "Apple's historic misrepresentation of signal strength" didn't exacerbate the problem, Consumer reports clearly states that the issue is not related to the signal strength, what it did was show that Apple blantantly lied to their customers and the public for years! They knew they weren't showing signal strength according to the guidelines that AT&T provided, guidelines that other phone manufacturer followed. They did this to fool their customers into thinking they were getting better reception on their "magical" device. That's serious and shouldn't just be glossed over or swept under the rug.

sorry to hear you're getting the same problems as me. It's in the post as we speak and they told me a 5 day turn around once they get it. That should give me a couple of days to test the new one out with the option of returning it within the 30 day period. Like you say, not a lot to choose from otherwise, so I'll probably still keep the new one anyway and moan about it for a year before reassessing the android situation.
I would definitely ring them and tell them your problems tho, they will replace it no question. I really hope that we've both been unlucky, and that there is a screw'd batch that is worse than the others. I have read on here; 4 guys at work - 3 working ip4's and one screwed ip4 all tested in the same spot, so i guess that could be possible. that any maybe some software problems as well. Have also heard reception is worse on 3gs's with the ios4 update. i'll let you know :|

For the life of me I've tried to reproduce the "death grip" with my iPhone 4 and can't. Most people don't have the issue but certainly some do. I don't think it's a design problem, rather just a manufacturing flaw since ALL phones don't have the issue.
To illustrate, ALL Pinto's had the proclivity to explode when rear ended, signifying a design flaw. Since the majority of users don't have it, it suggests to me that the manufacturers in a rush to meet the projected demand, weren't as precise as required and some people are experiencing issues. Just my $.02

I have yet to have one problem with my iPhone.
I love it! It's a nice device. I tried to mimic the signal problem in everyway possible. Nothing but full bars in the Baltimore MD area

My iPhone 4 doesn't have the death grip per se, but there are some definite antenna issues overall. At my house it randomly seems to go from 1 to 5 bars. I'm not sure what is going on. (and I have the official 'bumper' case on it)
At some point I need to put my wife's 3Gs next to it to compare.
But there is certainly something weird going on.

Consumer Reports are right with their assessment of both the iPhone 4 being the best smartphone currently on the market and not being able to recommend it. It IS the best smartphone but its not smart at being a phone.

The bottom line is in order to do a recall or issue a fix like free bumpers Apple must have something to gain. I know the majority of the people on this website feel like Apple owes it to them, their loyal customers, to make it right. To Apple though, this simply isn't the case. What do they have to gain? We all bought the phone and probably will not be returning it. They have officially stated that if you are unhappy, take it back for a full refund. How many of the original 1.7 million people who bought an iPhone 4 will do that? 2% maybe. And demand is still so high that it will still be months before anyone can just walk in and get a iPhone from the store. For the rest of us, negative Consumer Report or not, Apple got what they wanted. An iPhone 4 purchase and a 2 year contract with AT&T. Do the majority of us have the "death grip" antenna issue? Yes. Is it enough to make me take it back and get an Android phone? Hell no! Apple knows this, and I'm sure they are looking at the numbers of iPhones being sold and couldn't care less what some Consumer Report says. In the meantime, Apple will issue a software fix to quiet us all down for the time being, and put out a fixed product next year.

I think this is good, Apple and Steve Jobs needs to be humbled. Sorry fan boys even Apple has problems and you guys will still try and deny it...LOL

A couple of questions:
1. What would J&J's stock be today if they said that the Tylenol problem was just a labeling error?
2. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
The problem isn't that Apple pulled the references to the Consumer Reports story. The problem is that Apple continues to deny that there is any problem, other than the way some people hold their phones. Apple is so invested in the idea that their products are perfection itself that they can't/won't do anything to address a problem. They're just shining a spotlight on the problem that they will have to fix later in a much more embarrassing way.
Ultimately it was inevitable, but the magnitude of the error is surprising.

Unless Michael Jackson did the reception testing... and he was wearing a glove on his left hand.
Apple could sell iGloves...

If this phone isthe worse ever. Apple really screwed up on design, why have they sold so many, and people are still trying to get one. Seems like everyone would be returning them. There are other phones out there to buy similar to the iPhone. Or is this another case of 15% of the population telling the rest of us what to think. If you have a gripe, no problem. Just do not go on, and on. Come up with solutions. If Apple does not listen, go to another carrier.

Btw all you fandroids are pathetic. Your phones are second class garbage, and you have to act like little highschoolers and come to an iphone blog to bitch about a phone youll never own. What a waste of your time.

Rene, you should've never responded to the "fanboy" cry. As apple should've never responded to the antenna issue. Every statement Apple makes only adds fuel to the fire.

I'd like people to realize that "best" is a subjective term. The "best" smartphone or anything else is the one you (or the reviewer or whoever) likes the best. It isn't the same as "STRONGEST cell reception" which can be measured with a meter.

Never mind that Consumer Reports said they couldn’t recommend iPhone 4 in one sentence then named it the best smartphone on the planet in another.

This is quite possibly the most ludicrous argument to come out of this whole issue. Sure, iPhone got great scores on the basis of it's non-phone functions (deservedly). But obviously no one is going to be able to recommend you buy a cell phone if it can't, you know, make calls.

Never mind we still don’t know how many people have the problem.

But we know it's a lot.

Never mind that other phones have the same problem albeit to lesser degrees.

Seriously, Rene? That's one of your arguments? That other phones suck less? Ooh, boy, sign me up for an iPhone right now.
And as to whether Apple was within their rights to remove posts? Of course they are - it's their board, after all. The real question is whether it's a smart business decision to do so. The answer to that is almost certainly no. Apple is not going to be able to stonewall their way out of this one - if this controversy hasn't already started affecting sales, it will soon. They need to address the issue sooner rather than later... but Steve is more or less psychologically incapable of admitting a mistake of this magnitude, so I imagine it's going to be a rocky road at 1 Infinite Loop for a while.