Apple, Verizon, and iPhone control: who'll blinked?
The Wall Street Journal has updated their article from yesterday and made it 100% crystal clear that they're not talking about some random CDMA iPhone but an iPhone for Verizon's CDMA network. If they're right, it's done folks. AT&T exclusivity is over.
Verizon Wireless has been meeting with Apple, adding capacity and testing its networks to prepare for the heavy data load by iPhone users, according to one person familiar with the matter. The carrier is seeking to avoid the kind of public-relations hit that AT&T took when the boom in data-hungry iPhones overtaxed its network, especially in New York and San Francisco.
iPhone-on-Verizon users, however, would be even more eager to avoid locked down search, bloatware, locked down aGPS, Verizon app stores, etc. And if Verizon even hints at putting iPhone on BOGO Steve Jobs will be reaching for his ninja stars faster than you can say "Whoosh!"
That's where it goes back to what TiPb has been writing about all along -- the technology is in place, it's the Apple/Verizon deal that's the hold up. It's something they couldn't do in 2007 when Apple was an unknown in mobile and Verizon wanted to own the music store, and now that Apple has a hit phone and Verizon has the Droid line, what gets it done in 2010?
With Android, Google has given Verizon a platform powerful and far more malleable than than iOS will ever be, and that would seem to make them far less likely to bend in face of Apple's desire to own the end-user experience. It's why I still think it's possible Verizon will roll their own, Android-derived V-OS -- or just make a UI like Sprint ID -- in the future.
If the iPhone on Verizon deal is done as WSJ suggests, it's one of three ways:
- Verizon has insisted on doing with iPhone what they've done with Android, Palm, and pretty much every other smartphone they've ever gotten their claws on, and Apple blinked.
- Apple told Verizon they're selling the phone as-is, just like the AT&T iPhone but with a different radio, and Verizon blinked.
- A compromise was reached, similar to Apple holding back on MMS and Tethering for AT&T or removing Wi-Fi from the original China Unicom iPhone, and they both blinked... a little.
Option 3 seems the most likely, an iPhone as we all know and love it with a few concessions to make Verizon happy. As a consumer I'm hoping Apple stands up to Verizon as they've stood up to past carriers, and Verizon users get the same iPhone pretty much everyone else has.
iPhone as-is makes tons of money for Apple and AT&T. It'll make tons of money for Verizon too. Hopefully that's the bottom line here.
[WSJ]
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I hope verizon does not ruin the iPhone or should I say I hope Apple doesn't let them. I am on ATT and will stay cuz my coverage is great in Minneapolis. However as a Apple IPhone user I would hate to see the product turned into some bloatware infested Idroid. And I hope when people make the switch they see for themselves Verizon is garbage I had them for three years.
I'll believe it when I c it
"If Verizon, however, is willing to release the iPhone the way it is on AT&T — and on most carriers around the world — and just rake in those big bags of Apple bucks, then all could finally be well in the US market."
That's a pretty big if. Don't see how VZW will give up the opportunity to make big $$ without controlling what gets installed on the phone and what runs on their network. Apple/VZW would have to come up with a pretty good revenue sharing plan when it comes to apps. What are the chances that will happen?
If the iPhone is, in fact, going to Verizon, that would partly explain why Verizon is switching to a tiered data plan.
If a Verizon iPhone does become a reality (I still highly doubt this), it will not be Apple bending, it will be Verizon.
It's a different world than 2007, the iPhone isn't a nobody anymore. If Apple didn't blink then why would it now? Verizon will just have to take it or leave it and at this point it could go either way I think. I can see it now, iPhone now available on Sprint and Tmobile and Verizon is left all alone after the talks break down.
All will never be well in the US cellphone market until all big 4 carriers are running the same (GSM?) standard and a single unlocked phone can be used (with full functionality) on any of the 4 networks.
"who'll blinked"?!? don't you mean "who blinked"
@sting7k, Dyvim & brian
Amen, you said it brother & I was thinking the same thing!
Completely agree with Sting7k. U know Apple isn't going to "blink".
Who'll misspelled the title
Apple won't blink, Verizon won't blink. No iPhone.
I'll be the 3rd person saying @sting7k hit the nail on the head. Seems Apple has the leverage now. I'm sure T-Mobile would love the iPhone. Sprint too, but I must say the EVO is quite impressive.
I've always been, "I'll believe it when I see it." BUT with tiered data plans coming, the WSJ reporting (they have more street cred than most) and LTE launching before before year's end, I'm saying this is 60% likely now.
Option 2 would be the one to make even think about switching. The others are deal breakers and I rather stick with AT&T.
Blah blah blah. There's already precedent with Verizon for Apple to point to to negotiate to keep the control they want.
Probably the only thing they might still be negotiating on are service fees and what percentage cut Apple is going to take from the service fees.
I think a deal will be reached in Apples favor. Verizon knows its customers been wanting the Iphone and there customers are getting fed up with the situation so Verizon will bend over for Apple and give them more control over the device and plus Verizon has total control over all their Android devices so 1 devices wont hurt Big Red.
Apple won't blink. They, traditionally, never have and probably never will.
It's also A LOT deeper than just on-device control. Apple doesn't allow discounting of the associated features that go with the iPhone on 90%+ of FAN(corporate) discounts. There is NO price changing in the store or over-the-phone sales. There is absolutly no way to do the little known different make and model switch through warranty to an iPhone. Retention CANNOT offer an iPhone at a reduced rate to save an account, EVER. Stores cannot do ANY warranty work on-site for the device.
These are all thigns that Apple wants control over that Verizon currently controls on all of its Android lineup. Either Verizon will bend to Apple's will ro they wont. Simple as that.
Verizon ha what a joke! I just want a new iphone already, iphone 4 is old to me lol.
@Sting7k Read that response was going to say the same.
The term "Who'll" is accurate: if this deal isn't fairy dust then someone had bent. Who will that be? We don't know. We'll find out soon enough... if, again, this is real.
I moved from Sprint to At&T FOR the iPhone about two years ago. I'm happy and could care less what Verizon does. But I'm going to start charging for my time to help my hapless droid friends do anything usable with their phones (email, fb, music, video, blah blah).
@Toddfromables
Not necessarily. AT&T offered me an iPhone at a lower than advertised price to keep me as a customer when my contract expired in 2008. Nonetheless, Verizon has set a precedent for leaving iPhone as-is. The original Droid and the current Droid X have very little V-bloatware. So if that's the sticking point, I doubt it will remain such for long.
@Dyvim
AMEN!!! As long as we don't have a standard technology to use, this madness will continue. Even GSM isn't standardized in the U.S. Sure a T-Mobile phone will work on AT&T. But 3G won't cross over. If there was one standard like Europe, then the carriers would have to be more competitive; maybe even follow the European model and practically give phones away (and some of them do). Although they can keep that tiered data structure U.S. carriers are starting to adopt.
Well we know apple and verizon will not blink so. umm ya
@Joost: "Who'll" is a correct term. "Blinked" is completely wrong. I don't know if English is his second language. From the looks of hist prior posts, it is. "Who'll" is a contraction of "who will," while "blinked" is past tense. You can't ask a question of the future (who will), while at the same time saying they have ALREADY blinked. His titles don't make sense, just like his use of the term "fork" as it relates to computer code.
who'll correct(ed) the subject of this article?
My guess is that VZW will release the iPhone as is with one HUGE execption -- they will allow the iPhone to be a wireless hotspot which can and will be used to transmit data to the iPad. This would be a big stick in AT&T's eye and not really affect the sales of 3G ipads anyway.
Sticking with AT&T. I have nothing good to say about verizon. I hope apple does not give them any room to breath on this deal.
Apple will never bow down to VZW... and VZW is too stubborn to relinquish control... they want to force feed their v-cast crap down ALL smartphones they sell... along with their stupid logo on all phones...
i would put money that vzw will NEVER get the iphone.... no matter how many analysts keep putting out articles on a weekly basis saying it will...
Goddammit would you stop with this nonsense already?
I never had much luck on Verizon. But that could have been due to the transition when they purchased Cellular One. I moved to sprint and was very happy in the Cincinnati area. I left Sprint for AT&T not just for an iPhone, but it was during the time sprint was bleeding customers and I was concerned they would go under. i would prefer Sprint to get the iPhone. I'm pretty happy with AT&T. I will say, Verizon is looking appealing, but, I want my unlimited data plan and verizon is moving to a teir plan as well. So I would be very unlikely to move to Verizon if they obtain the iPhone.
Whatever happens, it'll be the end of carrier-logo free iPhones. With exclusivity, iPhones have >meant< AT&T, if they no longer do, that nice unmarked glass front will be no more :(
Now now, don't beat up on Rene on his spelling and grammar. He's Canadian.
What's so good about Verizon? Why would Apple let Verizon tell them what to do with their phone that is a mega success on every network that it's on? Apple has leverage here, not Verizon. the iPhone is proven product that they know will be successful.
If Apple didn't bow down to the other major carriers when it first brought the iPhone. I highly doubt, no, I know that apple wouldn't do it just to make a CDMA version of the iPhone.
CDMA is end of life in the US, all carriers are moving to dump it at some stage - so I'd be surprised if we saw an iPhone released for it, unless it was advertised as the flagship LTE device for Verizons launch, and fell back to CDMA when out of LTE range. As for Rene's spelling/grammar, it cracks me up - and keeps me at the site. It's obvious this site is run by Apple fans - rather than seasoned journalists, paid to write the articles but with little interest in the products. Thats what makes it enjoyable.
Carriers are moving to LTE (or whatever next wireless tech), but CDMA will be here for the next 5 years at least. Maybe even 10.
EDGE and 1xRTT are still here, even though EV-DO and HSPA have been around for the last 3 or 4 years. Hell, they still sell EDGE only phones! It wouldn't surprise my if 1xRTT and EDGE are still with us in the next 5 years.
Any Verizon LTE phone will have to have CDMA (both 1xRTT and EV-DO) as a fall back. It'll be this way for the next 5 years. Maybe forever (well 10 years). You don't sell a phone that only can be used in 30 or 40 cities, but not exurbs or most everywhere else.
As to why Apple would only make a CDMA phone, without LTE, cross-reference iPhone 2G arguments. It'll all be the same arguments.
How is "according to one person familiar with the matter" good journalism on the WSJ part and TIPB for reporting on that?
I don't see how Apple could go to Verizon after they bashed Apple's iPhone with ads for it's Driod phones. Seems pretty backwards to me...
Verizon needs the iphone more then Apple needs Verizon. Even though Android is hot, the iphone gets the buzz.
@Eagleyesmith. Verizon's got 93 million subscribers. While not all of them would switch to an iPhone, a substantial number would.
Ignoring the grammar in the title -- but what's a "servent"…?! Some helpful snake creature…?!? ;)
Anyway, I really wish that the iPhone finally would come to Verizon, if only so that all the Americans could stop whining about AT&T and their reception issues and dropped calls and what not…! Assuming that Verizon wouldn't run into similar problems…
I am very near leaving Verizon, if they finally get an iphone and then load it up with a bunch of junk software I can't get rid of like on my Droid, I am going to at&t. I don't understand how Verizon is so frequently rated so well. I have had a few horrible experiences with customer service (and admittedly a few good ones as well). But my service isn't that great and if I have a call lasting more than 5 minutes I drop a call. Basically, my customer loyalty and good will is just about used up with Verizon. It's not necessarily a bad network, but there is nothing so special about it that keeps me from seriously considering at&t's iphone. I'm sure 4G on both networks will add a whole new dynamic to all of this, but as it stands, Verizon is totally overrated and it shouldn't give them the right or the leverage to screw up the iphone.
T,
I agree. You couldn't pay me to go back to Verizon. They remind me of a guy who begs from you while at the same time picking your pocket and then charges you for it while he walks away laughing! Bastages!
Rene, you say "the technology is in place, it’s the Apple/Verizon deal that’s the hold up" but I think there might still be two technology issues. Visual Voicemail is a key iPhone feature, and until Verizon does some work on their end, it can't happen. It probably isn't a huge project, but if Verizon doesn't do it, their iPhone experience will be inferior to AT&T's iPhone experience.
Which brings us to simultaneous voice & data connections. If Verizon in fact has SVDO in place, then that problem is fixed. Again, Verizon said they were rolling out SVDO in 2010, so it may already be done.
I had been predicting "no Verizon iPhone until the real 4G is widely rolled out, in 2013" but it looks like it would still be worth it for Apple to spend the time and money on a straight CDMA iPhone. Even though CDMA is a dead-end technology (as is GSM, of course.) Two or three years is an eternity in the cell phone market, and Apple realistically can't wait that long. The mindless Android hordes are multiplying.
Looking at it from Verizon's perspective, adding iPhone to their stable of smartphones can only improve their bottom line. And despite any posturing over logo branding or tethering or whatever, the long-term bottom line is what is most important to Apple and Verizon. VZ subscribers will be able to choose Android or Apple handsets, so Verizon can keep their current user base plus steal some disgruntled customers from AT&T.
But the timing is weird. Apple doesn't need to announce any new products in the winter quarter. Holiday sales only require existing products, not product refreshes to add sizzle. And Apple seems to spotlight new iPhones, iPods, and now iPads at specific times of the year. iPods in September, iPhones in June, iPads in March, and Macs throughout the year (after the other products have had at least a month on Apple's home page.)
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This year, iPad was on Apple's home page for 6 months, but that was because no previous iPad existed, and Apple wanted to heavily promote iPad since it is a brand-new product category for them. Next year, iPad 2.0 will only appear on Apple's home page when it ships, to avoid hurting iPad 1.0 sales until the new version is ready.
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So maybe, just in 2011, Apple will use calendar Q1 to hype the Verizon iPhone. And from 2012 on, the Verizon and AT&T phones will be announced together in June as they have done historically. Remember that ultimately there will only be on "4G" iPhone for the world, whenever 4G is actually 1. spec-ed out, and 2. widely deployed. There would be no need to announce separate AT&T, Verizon, and whoever else's iPhone.
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. And 2013? By then there will likely be an all-new Mac OS + iOS hybrid Mac, and calendar Q1 could be just the right quarter to hype those. It's what Apple used to do back when they were at Macworld and before iPhone. Man that was a long time ago.
lol vz iphone....
vz can hold it 10x better esp since the droid on the networks work flawless and still have the same huge internet footprint as the iphone.
I really wish you guys didn't get to be on the Smartphone Experts Network, the others are very professional and researched, you rarely see anything but a raspberry thrown at the competition on the other three.
You guys turn half your articles into Android hit-jobs full of slanderous remarks that have little place in the article(and, ironically, are very true of Apple as well), and your agenda is incredibly transparent.
My point is simply this, it's an Apple fanboy blog filled with Android slander and hate, and I don't think it deserves to be part of the network.
Never thought I'd see the day where I consider Engadget more neutral on Apple matters, given they too are often an Apple fan blog.
Seriously? "Verizon needs the iPhone more than Apple needs Verizon"
That is one of the stupidest statements i've read here. Android phones are outselling iPhones and blackberries by a percent that you don't want to know. (it would probably make you cry). Verizon doesn't need anything except their amazing line of Android phones. The iPhone no longer gets the "buzz" it first got when it was released. iPhone sales are plummeting, and android sales have never been higher.
@Revrant You've obviously never been on Crackberry. They take any opportunity at all to bash the iPhone. I stopped frequenting that site BECAUSE of the lack of respect for competition in the posts.
hey ppl take a look at what ATT is doing they know they are losing the IPHONE. so they geting every new phone that come out. like the BB torch and all windows 7.