Netgear CEO criticizes Apple and Steve Jobs

Netgear CEO Patrick Lo has spoken out over Apple’s closed ecosystem and the ego of Steve Jobs. Speaking at a lunch in Sydney Australia, Lo questioned the future of Apple’s closed system, in the face of mounting competition from Google’s “Open” Android operating system.

Once Steve Jobs goes away, which is probably not far away, then Apple will have to make a strategic decision on whether to open up the platform. Ultimately a closed system just can't go that far ... If they continue to close it and let Android continue to creep up then it's pretty difficult as I see it.

Lo also went on to criticize Steve Jobs over his thoughts on Flash.

What's the reason for him to trash Flash? There's no reason other than ego.

Lo was asked if he had spoken to Steve Jobs over his concerns but replied "Steve Jobs doesn't give me a minute!"

Lo did not stop with Apple, he also claimed that Microsoft had fallen too far behind with the Windows Phone 7 platform and that it was now game over.

Strong views, but are they fair? Do Apple need to open up the platform to continue the growth needed to see off Android? Do Apple care about the iPhone being the number one selling smartphone? Let us know what you think in the comments!

[Sydney Morning Herald]

chrisoldroyd

UK editor at iMore, mobile technology lover and air conditioning design engineer.

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Netgear CEO criticizes Apple and Steve Jobs

129 Comments

Nothing new here. Same old same old. How's it any different if it came from Balmer or Schmidt? Or any other person?

Is it any coincidence that none of us had ever heard of this clown until today? These half-wit CEOs all latch onto the Flash issue solely for PR.
His comments regarding Microsoft are laughable. His comments regarding Jobs and Apple are both laughable and very inappropriate given the current situation. I wouldn't be surprised if Jobs comes back to work with a new resolve to destroy NetGear, and good on him - if you keep pissing on Jobs over his health don't blame him for cutting you off at the knees.
Here is what this half-wit doesn't seem to understand about Flash. It's a bad plugin. I'll say it again, it's a bad plugin. It doesn't run well, it isn't secure; it's the lazy-developers' solution, and, more importantly, its existence as a de-facto standard/monopoly violates the principles of the open web. Those are all valid reasons to push the open web away from the proprietary plugin.
Here is something else this half-wit doesn't understand. Normal users don't care about Flash. Enterprise users don't care about Flash. Your mom doesn't care about Flash. Proper web developers (the ones who rely on proper technologies like javascript) don't care about Flash. The only ones who care about Flash are "open" nuts (citing a proprietary plugin as somehow open is laughable), lazy-developers, and old, embittered CEOs like this clown.
This is just a tired, old embittered CEOs attempt to get himself 5 minutes of headline coverage by taking cheap shots at Microsoft and Apple. What is odd is that his company's existence relies on the existence of both Apple and Microsoft, and has nothing to do with Flash. I wonder how much he was paid by Adobe to make these comments?

Last time I checked javascript was endorsed by the W3. It's a web standard and is used by every major internet company including Facebook, Google, Apple, Twitter. How many of those companies use Flash?

@Jeff Higgins
What's funny is your logic means improper web developers use Flash. Proper = Javascript? :-D haha.
Proper web devs use the best tool for the job.
Only 1 of those companies refuses to use Flash. You may not think Facebook uses it but what do you think plays the lil' chat pop? :-D Yep...Flash. hehe.
JS has its place man but to assume proper devs don't use Flash is ridiculous.

  1. Totally inappropriate ("when he is gone", are you kidding me?).
  2. Sounds like jealousy from a man who can't one of the greatest icons attention.

Sad that you have to trash talk someone who's health is declining. Very sad.

Hit the nail on the head. Interest in the iphone has peaked. Now Apple must think how to keep the customers they have. Open up the OS!

Open up the OS for what reason? So it can be as fragmented and unstable as Android? Really... what is the benefit of it being "open"? I'd rather have it run great and have an app store that has nothing but solid apps.

How do you figure? Endusers have the source codes and everything. How do you explain all the custom ROM's out there. Do some research before making such a ridiculous statement.

Forgot to mention this was a stupid comment. I've never encountered a single bug with android. No force closes. NADA. (Not including homecooked ROMS i've tweeked). And some app store iOS has. What happened a couple months ago when there were a hundred apps on the market that stole your information and racked up a huge itunes bill? Oh yeah, you must have forgotten about those.

I think you are about a week out from being pretty wrong on this. The smartphone market itself is nowhere near saturated, even in the US, so you will see lots of conversions from "dumb phones" as carrier availability (and possibly even subsidy competition) broadens also.

has nothing to do with a gain of interest. The interest was there but no ways of attaining it for stubborn people who don't switch carriers. Android is beating the iPhone. Deal with it.

@ chris
what the heck, dude? No one's criticizing Android... you're the one who brought Android up in the first place. Stop getting über-defensive because people want to discuss a topic with you. Chill out!
As a Verizon customer, I can tell you you're pretty far off on your assessment. I know a TON of people (my whole area has Verizon pretty much solely for coverage) who saw the iPhone and were like, "yeah, whatever, I can never have it so meh" but now that it's on Verizon the interest has grown. The ability to get the phone directly relates to the interest in the phone.
You're obviously angry, or stupid, because no one who is calm or can think would make such a blanket statement as saying people are stubborn because they won't switch carriers. Ever heard of not having coverage?

@Chris how exactly is apple peaking when it is experiencing the fastest industry growth in mobile market and is only just now opening up to multiple markets in the US?

For iPhone's OS to be a "closed system" it sure as hell is popular! Why fix it if it ain't broke!?!

It was first. First is always best and stays most popular until others take over.
Kleenex. "Can you hand me a kleenex?" [tissue]
Coke. "Get me a coke...graph." [no grape Coke] :)
Get my point? Apple did a fabulous job and won for a long while.

That means ABsolutely nothing. It takes the android operating system being installed on as many different devices to beat ONE Device that releases once a year.
Not one Android phone has ever come close to outselling the iPhone. Not one android phone has the popularity of the iPhone. I would honestly hope that the Android OS would outpace iOS in the Cellphone market with its multiple Manufactures because if Motorola, HTC, LG, and Samsung combined could't manage with their multiple device range outsell one iPhone model over the course of a year then something is wrong.
Fandroids are idiots.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't think Fandroids are idiots though I just think a lot of them are just angry for no real reason haha. Competition is healthy!

What!? Please, get out of here. Of course ONE single android phone isn't going to compete with the iphone. That's because Android offers not only OPENNESS, but also a WIDE variety of devices that use it. Android beats iOS. hands down.

Umm, IOS isn't on ONE device released ONCE a year. It's on 4--iPhone, iPad, iPod and Apple TV.
Either way, this guy IS a douche, but in fairness, so is Steve Jobs.

Did you even look at that chart? iPhone shipments doubled from 09 to 10. How does that show that interest has "peaked"?

@Chris, Hey just go get your Android phone and wait for an update, that is if the manufacturer and/or carrier will support it. Sure, Android outsells Apple, it is being pushed on more carriers and by more phone manufactures than Apple. I mean it is not rocket science that all these manufactures TOGETHER beat Apple who sells only two current and one budget phone. But, what do the numbers really show? Well, an Android fanboy like you will just keep attacking so I shall do what I am advising other:
DON"T FEED THE ANDROID TROLL!!

I have owned Netgear products in the past, and my advice? Steer clear! Get something that works! Remember that stupid people often don't know that they are, and this executive seems to be that guy!

How is this comment any different than if some homeless guy on the street were to criticize Steve Jobs? This man has no perspective, I'm truly amazed he's the CEO of a tech company. Has he ever heard of Apple computer, picked up a newspaper, read a business book or was he just randomly spewing vitriol to get his name in the paper? I doubt anyone would know who Patrick Lo is if he didn't say something about Apple and Steve in a public. I may not like Microsoft or Android, but this guy takes ignorance to a whole new level.

Completely agree with you. Funny how Apple has such a closed system and yet has one of the most iconic devices on the planet. Netgear...hmmm, not what do they have??? Nothing I've ever used.

@Jonathan - you hit the nail on the head! This is the only way this person can get publicity for himself. Has anyone heard of him? No... but attacking Steve Jobs (while he is down, I might add) got his name in the news.

What an idiot. He probably owns a Mac pro and carries an iPhone. His kids all want iPads for their birthdays too

VERY VERY Interesting. Hey I am an iPhone supported but I greatly support Android's success as competition is good for everyone. But I chuckle on his comment (or assumption) that as Android grows, Apple will be proven wrong somehow (on a closed system). Well lets see how Adroid does as Verizon markets their new offering.
But hey, I take no offense on this comment "When Steve Jobs is gone". He is from a different culture, I know what he means and I am not so thinned skinned.

I agree with him only on one point - I wish Apple would open up iOS to flash; after that, he lost me with his snarky comments. It's for this reason only that I'm considering the Atrix for my next device. If the iPhone/iPad could run flash (mainly on websites, I'm not that worried about games) it wouldn't even be a thought for me. Love my 3GS, would love an i4, but I'm still weighing my options.

There are plenty of non-porn examples - here are two I ran up against this weekend:
The past few days, it would have been awfully nice to follow aljazeera's live feed to track the unrest in Egypt. (Not broadcast in the US except in 2 counties in Ohio and Virginia,, and stream is Flash-only)
And, of course, every day is a good day to watch full episodes at southparkstudios.com.

I oversee development of online courses for a small college. The site that is hosting our courses uses flash for video lectures - not my call, no way around it, so it's what I have to format my lectures as. Where flash on iphone would benefit me is when I get a trouble report regarding a lecture, I'd be able to look at it (the lecture) on iphone or ipad, instead of having to go to my computer. I know, not a huge thing in the overall scheme but it's one of those "needs". Like I said, I love my 3Gs, and now have an upgrade (and $$) available, so I may go to an i4. So don't interpret my post as an apple-bash ;) I'm actually starting to lean toward sticking with iOS.
Oh, and no, no dirty stuff on my iPhone...thanks for the insinuation.

Your university should really be promoting open standards. Relying on proprietary plugins is a pretty irresponsible mandate.

To the average iOS user, the OS is pretty open given that they can jump on the app store and load an app to do just about whatever they want or need. The jailbreak community is a very small percentage of the total user base. Those people know how to get what they want. Apple seems to have it pretty well figured out.

I love my virus free smooth running Apple products. I'll never go back to windows.

I thought Steve did give reasons for not supporting Flash, it is a resource hog and kills the battery. No thanks, my laptop gets bogged down with crummy Flash stuff so I don't even care for it.
The iPhone is not going to be like the iPod, it just is not going to happen. Sales also seem to be fine, look how many AT&T alone activated with all the Verizon rumors flying at the same time.

I do think Apple could loosen the reigns a bit, but this sounds like a bitter man who's upset MYWI is taking some of his sales.

What a lot of people seem to forget is that the great majority of cellphone users could care less about it being "open" or "closed" as long as it works. They don't root, they don't jailbreak, and wouldn't know what that meant if their lives depended on it. Most would never even update the phones OS (or know that there is any need to) unless forced to do so. People have been dooming Apple's closed system for over 20 years,and they're still around. In fact the one time they did open the Mac (while Jobs was gone) it almost ran Apple out of business. I'm afraid Mr. Lo has no idea what he's talking about.

Uh they "couldn't" care less, and Apple's ecosystem is never "closed", both Apple and Google build proprietary software on top of open solutions and integrate their own IPs into them, "open vs closed" is just another delusion used to label Apple as a developer-unfriendly/user-unfriendly corporation.
But I agree with the rest of your post.

Of course I meant "couldn't". That's what I get for posting before I've had coffee. :) And I realize that Apple and Google both put their own stuff on top of open source, my point was that for all the stink made on the tech blogs about it the majority of people have no idea what "open" vs. "closed" means, or would care even if someone told them.

You are right, 98% of people I know don't even know they can upgrade their new smart phone's OS. If I started telling them about rooting or jailbreaking they would thinkg I'm speaking another language. The masses just want a phone that works for them. If I asked the same group if they wanted an "open" or "closed" phone they would give me the same strange WTF is he talking about looks.

I think that opening the OS will help considerably for Apple but then they don't get the Lion's share of the $$$. That being said if you continue to build THE most repliable handset on the market people will continue to come. I know people that still use the original iPhone. That is now pushing 4 years old. When was the last time you had a handset that lasted that long?
The reason that Apple's products are as stable as they are is that they (Apple) has the closed eco system they have. That means the have control of the hardware and the OS, whether that is PC's, Phones, Tablets whatever. I do wish they would port the OS for other hardware platforms both PC and Phone but I would still buy the Apple hardware.

1st "Once Steve Jobs goes away" ((VERY Inappropriate))
The iPhone is a great steeping stone for the rest of the smartphone world. I have owned every version since its release date. The iPhone 4 has by far the nicest display and photo and video recording that I have seen.
Problem:
iPhone came out in June 2007 and it took them to Sept 25, 2009 just over 2 years to enable MMS when every other phone in the world already had it.
Also took them over 2 years to release copy/paste June 17th 2009
which my razor had and all my other phones already had.
It took them to June 2010 almost 3 years after first launch for them to let us change the background with out jail breaking the phone. We still can not have themes.
Iphone released the 3GS in June 8, 2009 which after 2 years we were able to record video on the phone.
Are you starting to see the picture. I don't think they are...
Apple thinks when they do this that they are re-releasing some marvel product to the public or doing us some big favor. It's been a great phone but poor delivery on options for customers. I still have a weather icon on my home screen that says it's 73 outside.
The only thing I can pull off this phone with out jumping through 3 different hoops through iTunes is photos. God forbid I want to add one more song on my work computer when I had already synced it to my home computer.
As soon as the HTC Ispire hits AT&T I will be leaving this iPhone in the dust.

If MMS, video recording, and copy/paste were that important too you why did you buy a phone without them?

If you want the latest and greatest you will over look these for a while. But really why release MMS and video recording as a NEW FEATURE.

Also sting7k, I know I could have left at any time but do love the iPhone as it was the best thing out there. But with anything you have to take the good with the bad. I guess I am just ready to move on after several years seeing the same old iPhone if you know what I mean.

Those are his opinions and he's entitled to them. He's right and wrong about Apple's closed system. With it closed, that means that there is going to be degree of quality control that Apple will maintain and there won't be the fragmentation that Android is suffering from. However with it closed, they're shutting out potential growth and development. However Apple has been taking it's closed system pretty far for the 3 almost 4 years it's been out. But quality is Apple's main concern so it's probably not going to be an open system.
I don't like Steve Jobs and I agree that he has a huge ego that's wildly out of control but saying "Once Steve Jobs goes away, which is probably not far away" is inappropriate. But he brings up a good point of, what's Apple going to do without Steve Jobs? Apple sucked when he was relieved from the company.

Apple / Steve Jobs are trying to re-write the Internet for common people. Instead of going to a web address, people select an icon - is Apple's vision. In that vision, Apple make a profit on ever app. Its not ego that stops Jobs from wanting Flash on his devices, its the apps that could be built inside of Flash that is the problem. Apple wouldn't be able to get any $ from those.

If that were true, which it is not, then Apple would not allow javascript in Mobile Safari.
By allowing javascript, Apple gives proper developers every opportunity to build apps outside of the App Store; they're as functional as the theoretical (and hereto nonexistent) Flash-based mobile app would be, they have equally monetization opportunity, and, given that they don't require a plugin, they actually have better cross-platform support.
Apple gives developers two options: 1) build in the closed, proprietary Xcode environment, or build in the open web standards environment, defined by the W3. It's entirely up to the developer to pick which environment they prefer, and which environment will better suit their apps intended audience.
Stop being a Flash apologist; Apple is no more obligated to support Flash than it is to support Active-X or Silverlight. Developers who choose to invest in those platforms were well aware they were investing in proprietary systems for niche markets. There was never any expectation that those plugins would remain de-facto standards.

Him talking about Steve Jobs' being "gone" is no different than what many Apple fans have been saying about Steve Ballmer. His health is not the issue, here. Eventually he will retire regardless of that. It seems that without him, the company is lost - as proven in his original absense. I would guess that Apple's board has been discussing exactly that - as they should. They had better hope that he has or is grooming a replacement. Charisma is Jobs' greates asset as a leader. His charisma inspires those that work around him...can it be replaced and will whoever replaces him run the company differently? Those are fair questions.

Mark, the questions are appropriate. But this guy was not ASKING questions; he was grandstanding to get attention. He succeeded, everyone is tweeting this guys vitriol. Had it been an intelligent "conversation" that would have been a different topic.
Steve Jobs IS ill, the world knows it; Lo knows it; he knows exactly what he said. It was inappropriate period.

I use mainly android( i do have a 3G that i use as an ipod) but this is a HIGHLY inappropriate comment by him. "when steve is gone" cmon man, he is sick and not feeling well.
Although the point that he is making is a completely fair, he should run his rants through the PR department first

What an a**hole. This guy just seems jealous to me. He's mad because he's not half the CEO Steve is. Apple is probably the most successful company of this time so I'm pretty sure they're doing something right. I hope Steve's legacy lives on when he is gone. And personally, I'd prefer Apple's closed, secure system to Android's open, unsecure system.

Patrick Lo, is not having basic human qualities, no idea how he became a CEO. This is silly, inappropriate, inhuman comment given based on pure jealousy. If open systems could do as much as he claims it would have happened by this time (over more than 3 years).
Apple is open enough to harness the creativity of creative communities. I like to ask him what else is there to comment on other than Flash?

I love all the catch phrases being spouted in this thread. OMG, Android is fragmented because Steve Jobs says it's fragmented!!! This dude is complaining about iphone being a closed system, this is just wrong!!!
As an owner and user of both a Droid Incredible and an iphone 4. Neither is all that different than the other. Reliability for me has been about the same. Fragmentation of Android does not effect a very large majority of the droid base and most won't even know what the crap you are even referring to because it has 0 impact on them. Both have their quirks and the both have their pros.
Stop being bandwagon morons and pick a device because you like it, not because it has some pretty little logo that will impress your friends or will give you the nerd bragging rights because your device is "open."

I own an iPhone 4 and owned an HTC EVO 4G. Both are well built from a hardware standpoint. Android with HTC's SenseUI is very nice and user friendly. However, it is not as user friendly as iOS. You are right in that both have their positives and negatives. A real test for Android will be that Verizon now as the iPhone. How many Android users will trade the Androids for iPhones? How many new customer to Verizon will purchase iPhones or Androids? How will Verizon spend its advertising budget? It was pushing Android and taking shots at iPhone, now what will happen?
Also, you are right, pick a phone because you like it. And while you did not say this, your post reminded me of something. Android is open, however if someone wants to include Google's nice and useful Apps, well they must pay Google for it. So much for Google Android being truly and totally open.

What an idiot. Does he even know what Flash is? Flash is on its way out and if anyone's got an ego regarding Flash, it's Adobe.

Drama drama drama. How is this even a blog article. Seriously? How's is this even news man. How does this help us iPhone or iPad or itouch users? Nothing but drama news.

Angry Mac Bastards (really a comedy podcast) has a great word for these type of arguments: Highlanderism. "There can only be one".
There is no such thing as the one true way to do something. No one true way to be successful (other than the fundamental things). And there are different goals for businesses. Apple has a 70% marketshare in the DAP market. It got 70% by releasing a $50 iPod shuffles and $150 iPod nanos.
Guess what, that's the 4th largest business within Apple behind iPhone cell phones, Macintosh computers, and iPad media tablet computers. The iPhone and Macintoshes have single digit worldwide marketshare in there respective markets. It would not surprise me if the iPad has less than 50% marketshare by the Summer in the media tablet market. In the 20% range by end of 2012. And iPhones will be less than 20% in smartphones and less than 5% in cell phones.
People who think Apple should do things a different way are kind of nuts. They know what Apple wants to do, and they know that Apple is awesomely profitable doing it. Who in their right mind would follow the advice of going downmarket, both in software and hardware, where profits are small when Apple is currently enjoying awesomely huge profits and revenue with the current closed or integrated strategy?
Apple is the largest cell phone company by revenue and by profit as of the Q4 2010. What in the world are people thinking telling Apple that they are doing things wrong?
I was going to make another argument about dogs and cats - why ask a dog to be cat or vice versa - but analogies aren't that clarifying anyways.

"There is no such thing as the one true way to do something."
Well said. I wonder if Steve "my way or the highway" Jobs follows that podcast...

Oh, Jobs knows it perfectly well. He willingly gives up whole markets for doing it his way. He knows he leaves certain customers out and he knows certain customers don't want to be any part of Apple. He knows he limits Apple product marketshare. He's proud of it as one of the things he's said he is just as proud of the things they don't do, the things they leave out, as he is of the things they've shipped.
It's really hard to take the argument that Apple is doing something wrong given Apple's results.

woooooooooossh - the sound of a missed point going overhead.
It is not about the market treating Jobs, it is how Jobs treats those in his market. If there is no one true way of doing things, then Jobs is by definition hurting those who develop on his platform by restricting them to only one way of doing things.

The context of the article was really a business strategy one. Why should the context be applicable to a product design or systems design one?

Same thing. Scoreboard.
Even today, with Apple in the position it is in, it's always doom. There will be room for multiple vendors.

Bash him all you want, but he's still a CEO. some people posting here don't even have a decent paying job. LOL! I wish for Android to tramp iOS sales so Steve Jobs would start to see that his maniacal urge to control every aspect of Apple as company has to end. I wonder how Apple will be once Steve leaves the company. You have to wonder. Because after this medical leave, I don't think he's coming back.

So by your logic, if we're not professional chefs, we can't tell if food tastes horrible or is undercooked? Stupidest argument ever.
I don't get why Android lovers come here to talk down iOS... if you don't like it, don't buy it. Don't be mad that Android has to be released on a plethora of handsets across multiple networks to beat out iOS, which is on one device and (currently) one network (in the US). Apple's closed network works. I have a Blackberry and it's BUGGY AS HELL. It SUCKS. I've heard Android has the same issues and will never touch it because of that. I'll gladly take the iPhone with fewer options and fewer bugs than the Android with more options and more bugs.

So you've heard, Android has problems, even though you've never touched it.
And you wonder why Android devotees have to come 'round...

Most here read other blogs and sites. There has been criticism by those in the Android camp that it has been buggy and fragmented. So this is general knowledge, no one has to "touch" or own a device to know the problems they have. Just like there have been problems with iOS and Blackberry. I owned an Android device, HTC EVO 4G, got rid of it for a Blackberry device (first Blackberry also) and like it better. It has issues also, I knew that before I bought it.

This coming from the guy who has products with web setup wizards that don't work for squat in anything but Internet Explorer on Windows.
I've bought my last Netgear product.

It seems the enraged fanboi base is fixating on the couple of flame bait excerpts, rather than actually reading the guy's comments, which mix praise for Apple (and Jobs in particular) with warnings about being overtaken by more open models if they do not loosen up. Example:
"Right now the closed platform has been successful for Apple because they've been so far ahead as thought leaders because of Steve Jobs," said Lo.
"Eventually they've got to find a way to open up iTunes without giving too much away on their revenue generation model."
Eminently reasonable - everybody who has developed for Apple or distributed content through iTunes knows the is a bit of a Faustian bargain there - you get to play with the coolest toys, but you cede good deal of your controls and your freedom, and a fair cut of money, to Apple. Apple gets away with this because they undoubtedly have the nicest toys on the block. But if/when another, more open platform approaches - not necessarily equals -- Apple's level of sophistication and elegance, Apple will have to become more open to avoid a developer/content producer shift. We have already seen this, a teeny bit, to ensure things like the Unreal Engine could come to iOS. This could easily have been an Andoid selling point, than , had Apple stuck with its closed 3.3.1 and 3.3.2 policies.
Yes, Apple could theoretically avoid further opening up by maintaining the same coolness gap in perpetuity, and that is where ego comes in. Without meaning to sound judgmental, it by definition takes a massive ego to believe one is and can stay superior to the combined efforts of the rest of the planet. IMO, Steve has earned this massive ego, but I am not offended by calling it ego. What has saved Apple from their ego is how willing they have been to admit/correct mistakes (Pippin, iPod design changes) and minimize damage (ATV1). That not only keeps those egos in check, in channels ego into a creative virtue, rather than a vice. However, without that counterbalance, ego can easily lead to hubris, which can kill any company. If Apple is to falter anytime soon, Lo suggests that will be the reason.

Who is more valuable to Apple: end users or developers (be it software or hardware OEMs)? We all know the answer to the question. Well, which end users should be answered, but we know that Apple wants the premium middle, and doesn't care for the outliers.
The thought that eventually some product will offer the same kind of "quality" as Apple's iOS ecosystem is an interesting riddle to ponder too. In any complex system (market), there will be gradations in the quality of a product offered and the market to by them. Even commodity markets. Can a company, whose presumed DNA is to create the best product for the premium middle, be overtaken in creating the best product? Yes. But isn't Apple's goal to always be that company? So, we're off to see the races.

Implicit in that argument is the assumption that one helps users or one helps developers. As the Unreal Engine/3.3.1 reversal indicates, that to be a false dichotomy.

And...agreed, Apple is definitely taking on the burden/stategy of going it alone and trying to always stay out ahead. It is a valid strategic choice; Lo is just pointing out (at times tastelessly) that is a tough road, and one that will eventually (months? Years? Decades?) fail.
I agree with Lo in one sense - if/when Apple's ego blinds them to their mistakes, e.g. If in the future they bet the company on the next Pippin rather than see the mistake and cut their losses, that level of ego would be Apple's downfall. They aren't their yet, but they need to stay on guard against it.

But there are negatives to Lo's advised path, or to any of the marketshare "first" analysts: thin profit margins.
The goal of Google is to commoditize software and hardware so they can sell ad space. They want hardware and software to be as cheap as possible, if not free in order to get eyes/clicks/touches on ads. Microsoft is halfway there. They want to commoditize hardware, but their business is selling software.
In this kind of world, why would Apple or any vendor who wants a unique identity be beholden to that?

Netgear is the worst device I had ever bought. You know what Mr Lo f**k you
Android. Open source. Ok so what. It's still crap. How many android phones come out a year? Ok. and apple only updates the iPhone hardware once a year and look how much they sell.
Windows mobile. It doesnt look bad. But I wouldn't buy it cuz is windows. I f**k you too ballmer.
Apple bes and only one device that I have ever bought and I will ever buy.
Thats it that's all I have to say And if you don't like my comments about android of netgear or windows f**k you too. Keep your reply for yourself ok. Thank you
Signing out for now
"send from my iPhone"

I know Patrick and was with him in the early days of Netgear. When I read this I knew what was coming and chuckled a little because he's just that way. He built Netgear from nothing to a billion dollar market cap company. No he's not Jobs, but he's pretty good.
When he blurted out stuff like this it would drive us all nuts. He has a thought process and he tends to talk out loud, unfortunately when you do that stuff like this makes the press. Not defending the comments, inappropriate sure, but what happens when Jobs is gone is what needs to be contemplated somewhere.
BTW - I don't agree with him. Apple can just keep doing what they're doing because it certainly makes my life easier. So if you consider what they're doing less open than Android then so be it.
I do agree with him that it's pretty much game over for Windows Mobile but that's not just Apple's lead but Apple and Android's lead.
As far as Patrick - not much to defend there. He never did have a filter. Only difference now is that he has serious FU money now and doesn't give a crap about what you think so he doesn't care about a filter.

Android is open .. Apple is closed .. it works for both.. you can't have everybody out there doing the same thing. That's good business on both sides.

Mr. Lo is probably pissed of that Active Storage beat them to the punch with the "next-gen" Xserve.
Or maybe he's just a loud-mouthed idiot. Or both.

Windows is closed. It is apparently quite popular.
Linux is open. Only freetards and cheapskates use it.
Go figure.

Give the OPTION (with a warning) to open the OS so that those of us who think and decide for ourselves can do what we want with it.

Or give those of us that want a functional device that works very well and we don't have to think about shutting down all the apps running even though you closed them, and tweaking it so it works because we have other things to do than just tweak and adjust our phone.

@ Joel re: "When he blurted out stuff like this it would drive us all nuts."
This is the problem with founders of companies trying to run the company after it has moved past the start-up stage. Being abrasive and brash when you're running a startup is expected. It's almost a requirement.
But when your company starts to make money and impartial investors read what you say in black and white, shooting your mouth off is a liability. There's a need for "adult supervision" once your company is past its infancy. Time for the founders to move on, take their profits, and start a new company.

Kind of like when Steve defended Apple's performance in the Antenna conference by saying "at least we're not Korean."
Oh, that's right, your rules only apply to other companies, not to Apple.

Somebody might want to talk to their CEO about talking trash without understanding the issue.
The only thing "closed" about the iOS is the curated app experience, not the cited music or video experience. I am still able to rip to iTunes, and I always buy plastic editions of music and video. Books and other media are also not "closed". Witness Kindle for the iPhone. I've also created my own iBooks.
That said, doesn't anybody see how other handset makers (in general not in total, and thanks to draconian carrier control) lock down features, screw up the Android UI, and control app access? That's not open, either, folks.
BTW, I use a flash blocker on my Windows machines because usually that stuff is crap. I'm happy not to deal with it on my iPhone. And I have SkyFire in case I want to view flash video. I actually worry about the day that HTML5 video is widely adopted, because it'll be all over my Safari iPhone experience like Flash on Windows.

I think he's right. Apple will consider putting Flash in with Jobs gone. I doubt the entire Apple company agrees w/ Jobs. There are super-valid reasons for having Flash as a part of the web experience and they are 1 out of 20 without it.
I doubt they nix the curated app store, etc but I can guarantee they'll consider adding Flash.

Yeah... no. Anything Flash does for the "web experience" either a) makes it worse, or b) will be accomplished through HTML5 (for clarity's sake; technically just HTML).

@Jeff Higgins
The biggest one is video. Sure...simple HTML 5 video targeted at specific codecs for specific browsers will work but folks w/ protected content will not go HTML 5. Whole other discussion but missing things like DRM, DVR, P2P, etc makes Flash video highly valid for mobile. Making the videos one format and playing fine on mobile and web is enticing to publishers. [granted, a mobile version of the video would be great but not 3 for each supported codec for each browser]
@chirmer
You are clearly set so no need to explain any further. You'll refute anything anyway.

Great comeback, bro ;)
FYI - telling someone what they said was stupid isn't the same as refuting... the initial point must have validity to be worthy of a refute.

As an avid android user (g2) (best phone on the market in my opinion) I can say flash really improves the overall browsing experience. And apple while a solid product is lacking in so many areas, lack of custom themes, limited multi-tasking, and basically the same design as the original iphone where as android has evolved and iphone has just pretty much stayed the same. And to the people who say android is difficult to use, you must of be either slow or never even used an android and just believe what jobs is saying because if my gf can work her mt4g without asking me for help and mind you she can barely use the computer without my help I'm pretty sure its not at all difficult, and usually more options and features always add a tiny bit of difficulty

While having Flash on your phone may improve the mobile web experience, Flash does not itself improve the web experience. Jobs is/was making a stand to show just how much Flash weighs down the internet and since Adobe's got the monopoly on the thing (which is why Flash should always be capitalized - it's a proper noun) Jobs is saying we should dump it. Because of the general public's love for the iPhone, this has a huge, and desired, effect. Fairly soon Flash will be antiquated by HTML anyway...
I don't have an iPhone, but a Blackberry, and I don't have Flash either (suuucky browser can't load anything), and honestly, the only thing I miss is Homestar Runner :D And coming from a BlackBerry, Androids are actually very confusing, just because of the different ways of going about doing things.

ditto. jobs seems intent on elucidating upon the array of defects that plague adobe's Flash. i have experienced Flash on android phones and yeah i liked being able to view tons of videos that i can't stream on my current phone, iphone 4. but i enjoy the refined UI, app market and networking effect associated with the iphone -- i just wish it had push email like blackberry & android.

HAHAHAHA...Whatever. Apple even makes better WiFi access points and routers than Netgear. I have the Time Capsule and I can't believe how incredibly fast it is compared to even Linksys routers, so clean up your little Netgear toys that constantly have issues. Apple will be fine.

Apple contrary to your opinion does not make great wifi products and the "speed" you speak of is your internet connection, not the wifi connection speed. I would recommend you investigate some of these things before you continue to spew Jobs' BS.

The CEO from Netgear should spend more time trying to figure out why his products are low quality and unreliable instead of talking bad about others.

Adobe is the one at fault for the poor condition of mobile flash. It is only in the last year that they had a version fir android that was not vaporware. What is the impact of flash on battery life? How many crashes does flash cause on mobile platforms? AFAIK chrome sandboxes flash so that when it eventually crashes it does not take down the browser--that says a lot about flash and it's stability.
Additionally, flash is a closed platform and the quality of the software has always been problematic.

A million times THIS! If people wanted Flash on their iPhones, they should have pressured Adobe to make it function better, not whine because Jobs was trying to make their experience better. If the browser was constantly crashing from Flash, would the average user blame the Flash? No. They probably don't even know what it is. Apple would take the blame for having a shoddy browser, when it's not the case at all.

Well I can honestly say that my g2 is prob one if not the fastest phone on the market and yes faster then the iphone in both browsing and processor and flash runs smooth on my phone and I suppose 4g speeds help but flash is great because I can stream non youtube videos with ease.

All this rubbish about flash is pathetic. lets face it, it ruins websites, the main users of flash are advertisers and if I never see another one it would be to soon. Its killed Yahoo homepage as a landing page because its slow as molasses. Adobe are dead they steal cash cows and milk them till the are carcases. The only reason they are building a mobile flash (3 years to late) is because they are panicing. people defending them are more worried about the effect it has on youporn than anything real.

In order to enlighten you with the truth let me tell you that it wasn't the ego but it was adobe because of whom he seperated(Mr.Jobs) with adobe flash. It was adobe to decline the request of Mr.Jobsto create a software that could do editing only on all apple devices . In order to take a cold blooded revenge Mr. Jobs developed way cooler softwares. Long Live Jobs. Fuck Adobe.