TiPb Answers: Why isn't iPad 2 dual-mode GSM+CMDA?
Instead of releasing separate iPad 2 models for AT&T/GSM and Verizon/CDMA, why doesn't Apple just use that new Qualcomm dual-mode chipset and support both GSM and CDMA on one device? That way users could not only swap microSIMs and move between different GSM/HSPA networks when they travel abroad, they could switch between AT&T and Verizon's CDMA/EVDO networks when at home. (For an explanation of what all those terms mean see TiPb's data and wireless networking glossary.)
Well, if the Verizon iPhone is any indication, Apple may indeed be using Qualcomm's MDM6600 dual-mode chipset, only enabling CDMA on the Verizon version. However, the radio is only part of the equation. The other part is the antenna. Supporting different frequency bands requires different antennas at different lengths.
The AT&T/GSM model supports 850, 900, 1900, and 2100 MHz for UMTS/HSPA, and 850, 900, 1800, and 1900 MHz for GSM/EDGE. That's 5 bands (pentaband) already.
The CDMA/Verizon mode supports 800 and 1900 MHz for CDMA/EVDO rev. A. That's 2 bands (dualband).
If -- and I'm no radio engineer so I don't know -- the same antenna could work for both GSM and CDMA on 1900, Apple would still have to add the 800 MHz band for a minimum of 6 bands (hexaband) to support both GSM and CDMA in one model. (It might also require more or different internal connections on a tiny, tiny motherboard.)
While it's never wise to underestimate Apple, they may simply not be able to engineer a hexaband antenna at this point. (No death-touch jokes please.)
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Instead of "Tipb Answers", this should be called "Tipb Speculates". It may have been because Verizon and AT&T demanded locked down device so users couldn't switch easily. It may have been other reasons.
The obvious answer is because that way apple will sell more ipads.. If they have a device that has everything they will sell more but if they divide them up more different types of people will buy
Edit** The obvious answer is because that way apple will sell more ipads.. If they have a device that has everything they will sell less but if they divide them up more different types of people will buy
I think you are right. Someone at Apple sat down and figured out the odds and decided that there are greater sales opportunities by requiring the switching of iPad's when switching carriers. I think Apple is very good at what they do, but they seem to squeeze the consumer and developers like no one else.
All industries do that. It's the same reason fashion changes. Styles are "in" one year then "out" the next year. They need people to feel the need to keep buying their newer products. Apple's no different. Why would any company, who makes anything, make products that would discourage consumers from upgrading? It's all about keeping the consumption cycle going.
You guys really are stupid aren't you. Everything apple does is EVIL huh? and to make more money huh?
Do you REALLY honestly believe that if someone bought their ATT model they would get upset with ATT's Data and go out and buy a WHOLE nother iPad to get on Verizon? do you HONESTLY believe that?
they won't be making a single dime of sales because of the different models.
Strange that, before posting this reply, I searched the word "evil" on this page and only found yours. :shock:
I was wondering about this exact same thing when I was reading the live-blogging of the iPad 2 Event.
I think this is a very U.S (and Canada?)-only discussion. Most countries do not have a provider that uses CDMA. It seems like Apple will release Ipad 2 in a large number of countries and subsequently the US-portion of the market will be smaller than before, I think the internatinal market is growing faster than the U.S-market.
If there is even the smallest extra cost per unit to make a dual-mode iPad then it would probably be bad buisness as a lot of the dual iPads produced would never even come close to a CDMA-network.
Cheers from Sweden! /Jonas
Absolutely spot on. This is yet another article showing that tipb.com doesn't realise that there is a world outside of North America.
That comment sounds very European oriented. You shoul check on countries outside Europe because there are actually still a lot of CDMA networks around the world.
Verizon Wireless uses 850mhz and 1900mhz same as AT&T. My theory is that their is no way AT&T is going to let you have AT&T services on month and switch to Verizon Wireless the next week same thing with Verizon Wireless they don't want to let you switch to AT&T the next month, the carriers want you to use their network on one devices only. The qualcomm gobi the chip that sports the CMDA and GSM it is my Cr-48 aka Google Chrome-NetBook and I could hack it to en-able the GSM side I am sure if your hacking skills were top-notch then you could use the iPad on CMDA or GSM but not at the same-times. So the yes the iPad 2 could run AT&T and Verizon Wireless and Apple could easily do it in a few hours the only resone that the Apple did not users to do this is A sell more iPads B carriers would not like to allow people to switch C Apple could think that the everyday user would get confused maybe.
you mean to say that Apple is making one hardware for both and differentiating by locking the feature of both carrier use? Ifixit teardown of ipad 2 will tell.
I'd challenge you on that, Rene. I wouldn't say that Apple isn't capable of designing a hexaband antenna, but rather that they feel like it's probably not good use of their resources. At this point, LTE is a foregone conclusion as the next logical evolution for wireless technology. As I understand it, it'll be running on different spectrum, and will be much more standardized across networks.
That being said, it stands to reason that Apple might have not felt that it was worth their time, effort, and resources to work towards developing a new antenna technology when it'll likely be a moot point in less than 12 months anyways.
Thoughts?
agreed. Steve jobs has said similar things about allocation of resources on other ramping down technologies.
My guess is that since CDMA is almost only used in the USA, any additional cost on top of a GSM iPad to make it also CDMA-compatible would have been lost money on the international market. When looking at the US market alone, it might have been the better option, more customer friendly and saving some logistic effort. But to make a GSM+CDMA version only for the US and a GSM-only version for the rest of the world would have meant the same fragmentation as a CDMA-only and a GSM-only version and would have been more expensive. So that's probably why they chose the current way.
When the additional cost to make a GSM-device (iPad or iPhone) CDMA-compatible gets close to (or even equals) zero, we'll hopefully see unified versions. That would make things more customer friendly, less fragmentated and travelling as well as carrier-switching a bit easier. Who knows, maybe iPhone 5 will already be unified.
About 500 million China mobile customers that are on CDMA technology would say you're wrong about USA being CDMA-only. Plus there are tens of millions in India, many more in Korea, & Japan all on CDMA still.
My theory is that all iPad 2s share the same hardware and use the same Qualcomm chip that is used in the iPhone 4 for Verizon. They are then configured in their firmware for a specific carrier.
I also don't believe arguments that Apple does this to be greedy. I think it is simply to appease the carriers. I bet Apple would prefer to just make one version of their product and not have to worry about all this junk.
Maybe that's true. Hopefully, our baseband hackers will find out if that's the case and maybe even allow the GSM version to run on a CDMA network! The CDMA version of course can't easily be convinced to run on a GSM network due to the lack of a SIM card slot.
I'm 99% sure they're different.
The GSM model would require a SIM slot on the side, which the CDMA one won't have. Verizon just wouldn't be okay with having a SIM slot on the side of an iPad that supposedly can't do GSM. There's just no way, with the hardware differences required.
To me this is the most common sense reason
Rene my man you really need to think harder about this post. Verizon already has many world phones that support the frequencies you are speaking of. Pentaband antennas will support the 800 MHz frequencies because in reality they closely resemble the 850 bands that already exist. if you look at the actual frequencies Verizon/Sprint use for CDMA it is actually around 830-850 in most cases. If RIM, HTC, and Moto can put out a pentaband for Verizon that works on GSM/CDMA than Apple should definately be able. This is a fail on Apple's part.
Don't blame Apple. The GSM/UMTS iPhone (or iPad) has no problem connecting to Bell/Telus' UMTS networks in Canada, which use the same '800/850MHz' B-band spectrum as Verizon's CDMA in the U.S.
Sorry TiPB, you guys didn't do your research on this one.
Beside the fact that only a few million people use CDMA Networks outside the USA it might be also a matter of license fees!? Qualcomm gets fees for every usage of CDMA so I guess if the CDMA part is not activated there are no license fees to pay!?
I think its funny how the GSM Ipad is always named Att Ipad as if it would be exclusively made for Att. Att owns only a lil piece of the global GSM market.
I agree with you.
Everyone seems to hate GSM because of AT&T
It almost doesn't matter, considering the numerous ways to use mobile hotspots, which is has thankfully made it to the iPhone.
That said I think I am going to get the GSM version for just-in-case situations.
It's probably because if a carrier decided to subsidize a portion of the iPad for service they couldn't switch from 1 carrier to the other.
Simple answer: 850MHz and 800MHz are the same thing.
Long answer: a very long time ago, 800MHz spectrum was split in two (A band and B band) and allocated by the respective authorities (FCC, Industry Canada). Traditionally, in AMPS, IS-54/136, and CDMA, that band was referred to as 800MHz.
When the historical 'A band' carriers (AT&T/Cingular/predecessors, Rogers in Canada) moved to GSM and later UMTS, that band became known as 850MHz. All the GSM/UMTS equipment designed for use by those carriers is described as 850MHz. But it's the very same spectrum that was previously called 800MHz...
In Canada, where Bell (in Ontario/Quebec) and Telus (in Alberta/BC) are now running UMTS in their old 'B band' spectrum, the GSM iPhone works just fine. And that's the same 'B band' spectrum that's used by Verizon to run CDMA in the U.S. (and that is used by Bell/Telus for CDMA up here too).
Yes, it's weird - Bell/Telus' CDMA devices are all labelled 800MHz, their UMTS devices are labelled 850MHz, and they all work fine on the same spectrum.
So, no need for a 6 band antenna. The existing iPhone can tune the Verizon frequencies just fine when those frequencies are used for a UMTS network. Time for a new theory?
omg thank you... i contemplated typing out a long explanation but realized rene wouldn't change the article anyways. you saved me a lot of work :P
dual-mode GSM+CMDA... what is c.M.d.a ???
Maybe it just cost more to put the dual band ... this way they keep the ipad at the same price points. People may not care about dual band as much as they care about the ipad costing the same or less as the previous generation.
If you're not a radio engineer, why are you answering their questions? There's 0 content in this post!
what about limited number of chipsets? Apple is trying to have more suppliers for components and one chipset for all 3G version could be too much for Quallcom...
Apple is a for profit company. They build products to get your money, and mine, out of our bank accounts and into theirs. They will do whatever is most effective for that purpose. We know this already. There are many things they can do but the goal is profit.
That's an easy one which will likely be repeated with iPhone 5 this summer: More device sales. Maybe Geohot can finagle it to where he hacks into one of them to enable both parts of the chip, ideally in the one that has the SIM tray. :D
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