Top 10 Reasons Why the Blackberry Compares Worse Than Ever to the iPhone 3G - Wait-a-Thon!

iPhone 3G to Terminate RIM Blackberry?

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Back in April, sister site Crackberry.com posted a hypejacking article detailing their "Top 10 Reasons the iPhone was NO Blackberry". Rather than a purely facetious "And thank Jobs for that!", TiPb kept tongue firmly in cheek but responded with the "Top 10 Reasons the iPhone is Incomparable" and a more considered (meaning they didn't let me write it!) 10 Reasons to Ditch Your Blackberry for the iPhone. (Though in my defense, I did think there was something the iPhone could learn from its Blackberry competitor...)

Now, however, as the iPhone 3G and its 2.0 software are poised to take on the enterprise market, where RIM is still clearly the sales (if no longer the mind) share leader, perhaps it is time. So, as Crackberry.com pushes their "Top 10 Reasons the iPhone is STILL NO BlackBerry", let's just strap our business plans on and see if there really is any way the Blackberry can compare to the iPhone 3G.

Read on to find out!

10. Keyboard Complete

Okay, tic-tactile keyboards are a big for those who grew up on them -- those who can actually use the small, hard, round little things (I never could). And the Blackberry has it -- all Querty, all the time. Right there, whether you're typing or not, whether you need it at the moment or not. Whether you want it or not. Immovable, immutable, covering 50% of the useful surface of your device even if you won't be typing anything for hours. Just there. Taking up space.

By contrast, iPhone virtualizes whatever keys you need when you need them, and for everyone who complains about typing on it, there's someone who claims they can type ever-so-much better than they ever could on a cramped little querty (myself included!)

iPhone 2.0 will even let you finger-draw Chinese if you want to, and switch languages on the fly. What if you need to switch from Spanish to Russian on your Blackberry? Get out a tiny screw-driver, pop off the tic-tacs, and try to pop on a different set?

9. Screen Size Matters

I recently watched a poor, hapless young cable tech try to install a new connection while following the directions and schematics pushed to him on his tiny Blackberry screen. He turned his head. He squinted. He fumbled with the roller ball. And his exasperation was audible. Contrast this with any of the widescreen iPhone apps, or better still, the App Store apps demoed at WWDC, especially the medical and reference apps.

3.5 inches of swipe-able, rotate-able, pinch-able, spread-able, goodness would have made his job -- or any job -- easier by a (next) generation.

It's not just the media that benefits from the space afforded by the lack of a constant, bolted-on keyboard, its many different kinds of productivity apps.

The iPhone's screen, combined with multi-touch, GPS, and 3G speed is a game changer. (It's even forcing RIM to change its game with the Thunder...)

8. Ecosystem

I've said it before and I'll say it again, RIM has the Blackberry and some supporting services. Apple has the iPhone, accessories, Macs, Mac software, iTunes, App Store, Apple Retail Stores, and an unmatched 360 degree, spherical business integration. Not only does this let Apple run break-even or loss-leading content services for music and applications -- which benefit consumers through low prices and high availability, it lets them leverage technology (e.g. OS X for the iPhone) and provide offerings (e.g. MobileMe) that no other company, much less one as single-faceted as RIM can compete with.

Maybe the iPhone doesn't (yet, see below) have first-party video recording abilities. But if you want to, you can shoot professional video, capture it to your MacBook Pro, check it into Final Cut Pro Server on you XServe, render it out with Motion, Color, and Compress on your iMac, serve it up to iTunes, download it on a PC, and sync it over to the iPhone (or Apple TV) your friend just bought at the Apple Store.

With iPhone 3G and 2.0, integrating the SDK with GPS-enabled location services and 3G bandwidth, that ecosystem grows exponentially. And the iPhone has it whether you choose to use it -- or any part of it -- or not. RIM simply doesn't have it, no matter what you may choose.

7. Open Standards, Open Choices

The 90s were all about monopoly. Tying us into closed, proprietary sandboxes where, once captured, we were stuck in one system, paying and paying, without any easy ability to move our data from one place to another, one app to another, one device to another.

RIM is still hanging desperately to this model, be it with their proprietary messaging system where a device like Crackberry.com's pre-release Bold can be rendered useless by a single NOC command, and corporations have to buy into costly additional servers or services ad nauseum infinitum simply to remain functional.

By contrast, Apple has thus far stuck to industry standards like IMAP, HTML, CSS, AJAX, and worked with open companies like Google, Yahoo! and others to ensure that any compliant site, message, or data can move through the iPhone without so much as touching Apple's servers. They've even contributed back to the Open Source community with CalDav and CardDav, not to mention WebKit itself.

Sure, ActiveSync is there in iPhone 2.0 if your business has already fallen into it, but the iPhone clients are agnostic, and if one day your company switches from Microsoft to Google, Yahoo!, a homegrown FOSS solution, or anything else, your experience on the iPhone stays the same.

And maybe there's no device-dependent MMS, but you can email pictures to any device -- handset, laptop, or desktop. That's platform independence, and where technology is moving. Just like they did by going USB only, Apple is leading the charge for the future. Will people complain? Of course. The same people who complained about the lack of serial and parallel cables. What are those? Exactly.

6. No NOC, No Worries

RIM's Network Operations Center (NOC) is what powers the Blackberry's true "push" technology; its greatest strength and, unfortunately, also its greatest weakness. While the NOC can get messages out as instantly as they come in, as mentioned before, RIM can also use it to turn off your device, or to share your messages with other parties (such as China, Singapore, and perhaps India), and if RIM's servers go down (as they have with regularity, both scheduled and unscheduled), your device goes down with it. Business waits for nothing, and as much as RIM empowers it, it sometimes also stops it dead in its tracks.

What good is 3G email and web if some manufacturer's server going down has you browsing at the speed of a lump of coal?

With the iPhone and its ActiveSync and open, standards-based protocols, if Apple's servers go down -- as long as you don't work for Apple -- you won't even notice.

(Sure, Apple may have announced a mini-NOC for push 2.0 App Store app notifications, but if that goes down, only third-party apps may be affected (and even that, only when they're not active), not mission-critical email, web browsing, etc.)

5. Modern Interface

Is anyone still running Windows 3.1 on their desktop? No? Didn't think so. But why are so many still putting up with Windows 3.1 (okay, maybe 98, I'll be generous) style interfaces on their Blackberry? While jesting about it earlier, there really is something profoundly disappointing in Windows Live for Blackberry being considered "candy" in the 2008, post-iPhone 1.0 world.

Windows Live for Blackberry

Of course, good interface isn't about candy, it's about functionality, and the iPhone feeds off a culture of excellence in interface, from Tog to the Delicious Generation. People may not always notice it, but they notice when it's missing, and after using even a 1.0 iPhone for a few months, the aged and near-obsolete interface in the Blackberry is slap-in-the-face missing. With 2.0, we get the SDK and...

4. App Store

From 0 to $100,000,000 in one media announcement. That's what Apple did for native iPhone application development with the SDK and with the promise of the App Store putting all those apps, free and commercial alike, in front of every iPhone owner, everywhere.

Momentum is everything, and it's iPhone Apps that have momentum now, iPhone Apps we see popping up in every developer PR and blog post, iPhone Apps that soon, if they're under 10mb, every iPhone owner on the planet will be able to download directly to their device no matter where they are. Impulse made easy. What you want, when and where you want it, be it niche business applications, specialized educational tools, hardcore games, everyday utilities.

3. iPod Class Media

Sure, you can't (yet, see below) listen to hideously compressed BT audio via A2DP on an iPhone (though any audiophile worth their lossless codec probably thanks Jobs for that...) Apple has a long history of not releasing as-yet-unperfected technologies unto their devices. If the tech is good, they're the first to dump the old and embrace it (floppies for CDs on the iMac, CDs for WiFI on the Air). If the tech isn't so good yet, they just wait until it is. They have standards.

That's the same reason they haven't tried to hack into someone else's media experience the way RIM claims it has with iTunes compatibility. When they wanted media, Apple built it themselves, and so with the iPhone, you get a complete, cohesive, massively integrated experience from music to movies, video to TV, audiobooks to podcasts, with the best back-end, desktop, sync, and mobile browser and WiFi store on the market. It just works. (And as noted, it will soon just work with App Store as well...)

iPhone 2.0 will bring video playlists, and perhaps more. Because Apple has a history of...

2. Continuous Feature Improvements

Four firmware updates to the original 1.0 OS, including the iTunes WiFi Music Store, double-tap the Home button to go right to the phone or iPod pop-up, double space for period insertion, springboard/homepage "wiggly" customization, WebClips, cell/WiFi triangulation, and many other little fixes and enhancements. All in less than a year, all free for the iPhone. Who else delivers that fast and that free?

Now we're on the verge of 2.0 -- also free for current iPhone users -- with more and more features jam-packed into each beta (now at beta 7 and counting).

Is the iPhone still missing some hotly demanded features like cut-and-paste? Sure, but it's only ever a firmware update away.

Sadly, the aging Blackberry OS has hardly seen more than a coat of paint by comparison in its much, much, much longer lifetime. Want to add a MobileSafari class internet browser to your old Blackberry? Even if RIM could build one (rather than relying on Opera to fill the gap), more than likely you'd have to buy the iPhone-like Thunder just to get it.

The new mobile world is all about innovation and staying up-to-date, and sadly, post-iPhone, the poor old Blackberry hasn't shown it can keep up.

1. iPhone is the New Crack

Think always-on plain text Crackberry-style email is enticing? The iPhone's full HTML mail client alone opens up a brave new world of addiction, now "pushed" right to your device via Exchange ActiveSync, Apple MobileMe, or Yahoo! (or the regular old way with any other IMAP or POP provider). Add to that full-on, standards compatible browsing at screaming 3G speeds, GPS powered Google Maps wrapped in the best client-side software on the planet, and ubiquitous internet has never been so fully realized and so zomgforgetthecrackineediphonenownownow!!11

There'll be an after-school special about it before long. Believe it.

(I don't even have a data plan and I turn the dang thing on hundreds of times a day -- come July 11th I doubt I'll get anything done, but at least I'll be super-productive not doing it!)

Conclusion

There they are, the top 10 reasons the folks in Blackberry probably smashed their full keyboard-encrusted Dell displays on Monday following the WWDC Keynote. RIM was served back in March with the SDK and iPhone 2.0. Now they've been aced.

What do you think? Did I miss anything? Can Blackberry respond (with something besides another iClone?) Will they? Or do you think this list is totally for hosers and the Canadian Crackberry is still number #1? Why? Let us know!

Rene Ritchie

Editor-in-Chief of iMore, co-host of Iterate, Debug, Review, Vector, and MacBreak Weekly podcasts. Cook, grappler, photon wrangler. Follow him on Twitter and Google+.

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Top 10 Reasons Why the Blackberry Compares Worse Than Ever to the iPhone 3G - Wait-a-Thon!

137 Comments

I recently asked our IT guy if they had any plans on supporting the iPhone. He said they only support Blackberry, and will only allow wireless access to the LAN to company-owned phones. So much for my plan to have access to training documents anywhere in the building. You can always count on our company to be three years behind on technology. It was only a year ago that I was still using a 667MHz PC.

There is all this talk about apps, but when you go to Apple's site and look at their information on the app store, they only list 6 or so different apps. All the rest of the app talk is really pure speculation until it is "officially" acknowledged by Apple. People have been mentioning how Apple has been very slow to allow big corporate names into the SDK. I need to see what the SDK is really going to bring out before I put my eggs, read $, into the Apple basket.

Im in the apple basket hard core, with all my eggs, of all different colors. Im really excited to see all the stuff that is going to come out of the apps store. Im most excited not for the big names to bring software to the iphone but the smaller guys. The smaller guys who will create these tiny programs that really are the hidden gems taht everyone is going to have on their iphone. Its going to be the smaller guys who we're really giogn to be impressed with. Thats why im leaving my blackberry behind. That and full internet browsing. I cant stand not having the internet at my fingertips. i already pay $30 a month and i dont have full internet browsing. it drives me nuts.

The biggest thing for me is how Apple does get around to fixing the the things users do complain about. I know some were disappointed by the 3g specs and features but I'm sure in due time those issues will be added or corrected, for free. Big plus...

The Blackberry has two limitations that make it worthless for me: text-only e-mail, and that stupid NOC that can take out any phone's, or sometimes ALL phones' e-mail.
I sort of like how the scroll ball can change colors on a Blackberry, but I know Apple would never include something so trivial and tacky, and for that, I thank them.

You didn't mention (at least explicitly) the full internet browsing of the iPhone compared with the Blackberry's wannabe-browser. This huge advantage is made even larger—almost conversely—by the fact that so many websites are now producing iPhone-specific sites. Sites like Ta-Da List and Amazon are even that much easier to use with the iPhone because of their iPhone-optimized sites. One more plus for the iPhone in my book.

I really don't know that much about either phone except what I have read on these sites and I haven't decided if I'm an Apple fan or a BB one, but isn't the BB Bold supposed to have a lot of the features you say are missing from BBs? Like HTML email and internet browsing? And real GPS?

"Sure, you can’t (yet, see below) listen to hideously compressed BT audio via A2DP on an iPhone (though any audiophile worth their lossless codec probably thanks Jobs for that…)"
Have ever used A2DP? It's not bad at all. I want a device where I can sync music with iTunes, listen to music and answer calls with the device in my pocket, surf the internet and check e-mail. And the iPhone would be the perfect device if it had A2DP. The lack of it is why I will not buy an iPhone.

I own both an iPhone and BB Curve, by far I would choose a BB device. iPhone is a great piece of technology but the BB is a much better tool. The BB does lack eye appeal and an internet browser. However, look at what the iPhone lacks... The iPhone is great for youngsters, it is the new sidekick-looks cool.

Yes, Apple have created a great device in the iPhone, it really is very nice. However for day to day, "get-things-done" business use (and to some extent personal stuff) I think you are hard pushed to beat Blackberry devices.

i have to say, as a blackberry user. one thing the iphone lacks, a major thing at that is.. the ability to copy and paste. as a second generation phone, and "supposedly" the best on the market i would have expected more. but yet a year later, i still find myself disappointed in the iphone.

I think the mobileme will be a great solution for others w/out the need for the blackberry interface. Besides, we all know it. RIM products are damn ugly. Enough said. Its like a Kathy Griffin vs Kathy Ireland competition. You know who's going to win that contest each and every time. Ill take my IPhone any day, and twice on Thursday.

Its all getting a bit confusing really, which device to pick, but a decider for me is my music, all on itunes...
We talk about choice, but your current situtation (created by the device owners, apple, RIM whatever) narrows down your choice somewhat by the services they provide...

I had a BB before the iPhone came out. I got rid of it to get my iPhone I had my iPhone for less than a year and went back to my BB. I found the touch Keyboard hard at time to get to type what I wanted. Granted the iPhone will have 3G but that is the only thing that is any better than the current iPhone out there. No faster operating system nothing NEW. Why spend money on a phone that is to be better but really isnt. The new Blackberry Bold will litterally be twice as fast as the Current Blackberries out there from a 312 to a 624 processor. Why would you not want a phone that is really Twice as fast? I will never go back to an iPhone unless they get a flash, and a ton of other features that are there on the BlackBerry and as far as a full brower they have an app you can down load that give you the full browsing experience. So no turning back now. I LOVE YOU BLACKBERRY

I think the first point about the keyboard cannot be understated. Some people have a problem with using a touchscreen, but I would guess that most of those people have never given the iPhone's keyboard a fair test. The corrective technology is light years ahead of any similar service on other phones. (In fact, I don't think the Blackberry has corrective technology of any kind, at least my wife's Curve doesn't seem to have it.)
The touchscreen keyboard is great. I agree that it's a mark in the iPhone's favor, not the other way around as some people would have us believe.

I was thinking to get a BlackBerry only for the push mail advantage. But now the iPhone is a no-brainer!!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the iPhone is a nice-to-have toy whereas BlackBerry produces results.
Corporate America will never use iPhones because when it comes down to results BlackBerrys are for the working people. But, go sell the nice looking iPhone to high school kids :)

The only complaint I have about the iphone is that it doesnt have the chat feature that blackberry's do. I know you can have Instant messenger on the iphone but who uses that anymore? I think i stopped using that my junior year in college. To me the chat feature on a blackberry is the best because anyone with a blackberry can easily be added to your list. from what i know, iphone doesnt do that but I'll still probobally get one. lol

I have to agree on the copy & paste and lack of tasks/notes integration fronts; very lagging on iPhone. Beyond those, RIM is ultimately in a world of hurt on this one. As a long time Curve user, I find the virtual keyboard on iPhone to be 70-80% as good...and why is that "good enough"...because it leaves the FULL 3.5" open for data and display all of the time. It is a joy to use customized onscreen button rather than translating to a menu system for making selections.
Some tout the Opera Mini browser as a good substitute for Safari. I call BS - your thumb will fall off from trying to scroll that little box on that tiny screen tot eh location you "think" you want (again - too tiny a screen) before you finally click the pearl and find out you guessed wrong. Here's a GREAT real life example: I dare any BB user to use the built in browser or Opera to go to the Southwest Airlines website and check your flight status. Go ahead, give it a try...and then try it just once on an iPhone...match, game, and set for iPhone.
And what about the vaunted A2DP superiority of BB? I bought the top of the line Motorola wireless headset, and usually have to leave the Curve in my front shirt pocket to get connectivity without static and sound drops. Can you say not ready for prime time?
Now add the cherry to the sundae: using MobileMe everyone can have the Exchange Activestink (they shouldn't have edited that out of the video stream at Apple) experience to the common man. Wait until small business America discovers this nugget.

@Crackberrians:
Just saying the Blackberry is "better" for business is meaningless. I'm sure many people said "Typewriters are better for business, the PC is just a toy!". What are your reasons?
Some people are pointing to the keyboard, still, others to chat? What are your reasons?

10) Keyboard is more of a preference than anything. Some people prefer the feel of real keys - some like the iPhone's way of being flexible.
9) iPhone wins on screen size, hands down.
8) This is actually several things you combined into one item. Accessories, there are tons of accessories available for BB and iPhone. I would say this breaks even.
iTunes is a very nice integration into the iPhone. It has the one-up on the BB. The BGB wasn't made with multimedia and ewb browsing as its main functions - it was on the iPhone. The iPhone wins on its base features.
Video Capture: It is definitely much easier to capture and share directly from a BB. Sure, you gave a way to do this with an iPhone, but it takes MUTIPLE STEPS on MULTIPLE SYSTEMS to get a personal video on an iPhone. So, until a 3rd party app comes out, you better carry a video camera, your macbook, and find wifi access to do what the BB already can do on its own.
7) Apple has stuck with open standards, and that is a very good thing. The iPhone definitely is much better on this feature.
6) NOC. If iPhones want to play in the corporate world, they will need to comply with corporate security. This is where BB currently has the upper hand with BES. A company can turn off the BB camera, or turn off certain features as it wants. For consumers, this is downside. But if you are a corporation, having control over your company's security is a must. When iPhones do roll into the corporate market, they will have the same restrictions placed on them.
5) The iPhone interface is very nice. It is very native to two-handed operation. The can be used one-handed without requiring two hands (you can do some things one-handed on an iPhone, but try to hold your iPhone and zoom all at the same time with only one hand). There are multiple skins available on a BB so it doesn't have the Win3.1 look to it. I will still give this to the iPhone side.
4) App Store: At the moment, BB still wins on this. There are multiple stores offering hundreds of applications for the BB. You can even purchase apps from third part companies directly. At the moment, there are very few third party apps for the iPhone. There is lot of talk about future apps, but at the moment, it is all vaporware. This can't be a win for the iPhone based on "what could be".
Also, Apple will control all applications that can go on the iPhone through iTunes. If Apple doesn't approve of an application, it won't be available for your iPhone. In essessence, iTunes will be the NOC equivalent for software resources. Software developers will also have to get used to Apple's hand in the cookie jar for any application they want to sell. Apple doesn't have the momentun yet on this, not until actual applications start showing up.
3) iPhone definitely wins as a multimedia device. The BB was created as a business device.
2) iPhone wins slightly on this. Updates come out from both companies. The next BB update is supposed to have an updated web browser and HTML e-mail. Apple has done better at coming out with updates, but they still haven't added basic features to the firmware (such as cut & paste). Sure it can be just a firmware update away, but the same can be said about BBs.
1) iPhone has its own followers, just like BBs. I'm sure each side has its own addictions. Even so, Blackberrys still outsell iPhones almost 2-to-1.

While I'll be picking up an iPhone 3G on day one, I've got to admit - almost everything in the "Top 10 Reasons Why the iPhone is STILL NO BlackBerry!" article is a valid complaint. No video, no voice dialing, no stereo bluetooth, no copy and paste, etc., are all major bummers in my mind.

Just for the record, talk of this story has been posted in a certain forum of a certain BlackBerry site. The comments section is bound to get trampled by BlackBerry fanboys screaming things about the BlackBerry being for business and the iPhone being a toy, simply because they choose to ignore reality.
Exchange support? Doesn't matter, still a toy. Being tested as a possible replacement device by 35% of the Fortune 500? Doesn't matter, still a toy. Able to bring professional, desktop level applications to the hands of users from places like SalesForce.com? Doesn't matter, still a toy.
If there is one thing RIM and the BlackBerry are good at, it is keeping their users so enamored with old technology, that they fear anything new, instead of embrace it.
BlackBerry has an operating system so outdated at its core that it rivals Palm. Sure, they release software upgrades every year, but it is just throwing lipstick on the pig that represents the ancient and outdated core OS. The Bold may finally bring BlackBerry hardware tech up to date, but it is just a fresh coat of hardware paint on the same rotting wood that makes up the OS.
By the way, the Bold got an upgrade to a 624mhz processor because it NEEDED it. The Curve was running around with a 312mhz processor that was taxed left and right. Why should Apple increase the speed of the iPhone's processor when it is already fast enough? RIM NEEDED to make drastic hardware changes, Apple doesn't.
By the way, Apple had a 624mhz processor in the iPhone LAST YEAR. To go with it, they had 512mb of RAM... RIM is just getting around to releasing a device with decent hardware instead of repacking the same old crap, and you people eat it up like it is the best, despite the iPhone have superior hardware last year. Apple didn't need to upgrade hardware, they already set the bar for incredible hardware internals, so they were more than justified in "repacking" it.
I use BlackBerry, and I use the iPhone. I am an equal opportunity technology lover. I hope to God that the iPhone dominates RIM and the BlackBerry this year. Not because I care who wins, but because I want to see each and every BlackBerry fanboy eat their own words with a nice sprinkling of antiquated OS technology on top.

"iPhone has its own followers, just like BBs. I’m sure each side has its own addictions. Even so, Blackberrys still outsell iPhones almost 2-to-1."
Not for long!

I use my iPhone every day for business. I have heard all the arguments for BB, and I'm not convinced. As for editing documents, I had that ability on a WM 5.0 phone and found that I didn't really edit squat. I did READ a lot of stuff though, which the iPhone does beautifully. Including PowerPoint with 2.0. Cut & paste and A2DP aren't enough to change from the iPhone. I am content to wait for Apple to add those novelties when they get around to it.
Lastly, my WM 5.0 phone and my wife's Treo were both tactile keyboard phones. What crap! I'll never own another after using the iPhone keyboard. And I'll take the Pepsi challenge with anyone on typing speed.

Granted the iPhone has found it's user base in the market today, but I have to say I truly am tired of seeing all these BlackBerry/iPhone stories, although I don't predict them stopping at any point soon, before they were just dumb cause the iPhone was no where near the same device in terms of functionality, they truly were on two different levels at that point, the iPhone had hit the consumer market hard seeking individuals who wanted Music, Videos and "somewhat" of a phone, an awesome web browser and half arsed email capabilities.
Now with that being said...
The game has changed just a little bit, but the iPhone is still the iPhone, but now with better email support, 3G and a better phone, the new MobileMe feature is pretty slick as well, and the games are some of the best I have ever seen on a mobile device (aside from those dedicated to it..ie PSP).
Which brings us back to BlackBerry at this point, RIM has always hit the enterprise market hard, they OWN the enterprise market at this point and have the numbers to prove it, they also hit the consumer market as of late (think BlackBerry Pearl oward late) pretty hard and have maintained a steady growth in that are over the past 2 years, now while the iPhone afficiandos among you may tend to argue this, the numbers are there to prove their growth in the consumer market as well, now myself as a BlackBerry user watched the WWDC keynote with joy really, what the iPhone is bringing to market is absolutley sweet looking and the offerings as of late from RIM in the consumer market are pretty lackluster in comparison, RIM will need to kick it up a notch to maintain that consumer market growth for sure, but once again RIM doesn't make their bread and butter from the consumer market and I question Apples presence in the enterprise environment, sure..sure..they had a bunch of Fortune 500 Comp. at the WWDC keynote, how many of them were paid for ;), RIM has their HTML email coming...RIM has their better browser coming..media capabilities, well, MediaSync is still leaps and bounds away from what the iPhone offers but the BlackBerry will ALWAYS have it's following whether it be the business user who needs to bang off emails in seconds as opposed to mins it takes to send one on an iPhone (don't deny it, I have done the testing with friends lol, I can bang out an email even before they have the iPhone to their email startup page) or it be the 18-25 yr old who just thinks he's a business person cause he/she runs some Youtube clone website.
While the two devices are slowly getting to be on the same level (BlackBerry lacks what iPhone has, iPhone lacks what BlackBerry has), the iPhone has still not proven it's self as of yet to be the email workhorse that a BlackBerry is, so comparisons really are still kinda dumb, BlackBerry has the history of being a productivity tool...and I think the comment from WWDC was best (don't ask me who said it) as they were introducing some of the new Apps and Games at WWDC, the "host" made the comment..."and productivity drops"....

Another thing I am getting tired of hearing, is about Apple requiring digital signing of apps. I can't understand how and why Apple insisting on only letting quality apps into the App Store is a bad thing. I just don't get it.
Yeah, you can go to Handango and search through the whopping 3 thousand or so apps available for your BB Curve. You can sift through the redundant repeats, the overly expensive apps that are ugly and hard to use, like eOffice, and you can question whether you are actually getting something that is worth it.
Yeah, I will take a dedicated App Store that is with me at all times and that contains nothing but that which meets Apple's approval for quality, over what I said above, any day of the week.

"1) iPhone has its own followers, just like BBs. I’m sure each side has its own addictions. Even so, Blackberrys still outsell iPhones almost 2-to-1."
Most people who own a blackberry also didn't choose to buy one. their company bought it in bulk and distributed.
I agree with the poster that asked why a BB trumps an iPhone in the business world? You can't just state it and give no reasons. There are plenty of big companies out there testing the iPhone in a business environment and they are saying some pretty nice things....

Blackberries still have a place in the corporate world. If I ran a company and I didn't want my employees goofing off surfing the internet, watching movies, playing games, listening to tunes, etc then I would buy them Blackberries. I'd have them on a short leash with the push email and there's not too much non-work stuff they can do with it- perfect!
But for me, I'll take my iPhone, thank you very much.

I own a Palm Treo and support the Blackberrys for a large international company. Why should corporations fork out hundreds of thousands of dollars so you can have your music? RIM does have a history of security and reliability when it comes to corporate push email. Can Apple provide that kind of security? Or does the same thing ring true that "because we make less computers, hackers don't try" Wait until that first iphone virus runs and there is no corporate solution. RIM will laugh all the way to the bank. I am not a RIM fan but I can see that there is no reason for a large company including mine, to train all the IT staff because a couple big wigs want their music on their phone. Also consider the price. At&t is soo expensive for Data. My unlimited plan through sprint is $15 bucks a month. I can deal with the rest when I save several hundred a year over iphone fans.
I also would like to add that full HTML email is coming for blackberry users. I suspect that my be one of the reasons the email service has suffered from a bad rap for outages. They want to have a rock solid service and function BEFORE releasing a sub-par product as the iphone is and was.

Way to generalize users Blaize. Your precious CrackBerry site has more immature and childish users than any iPhone site I have ever encountered. The topics on the CrackBerry forums are downright sickening at times, and I think some of its members need psychiatric evaluations. Yet the iPhone is for the younger and more childish crowd?
I seriously love how you claim that the only "business" user that will adopt the iPhone will be the 18-25 year old wannabe, that runs a YouTube clone. What part of 35% of the Fortune 500 is considering the switch to the iPhone did you miss? Or is that the 35% comprised of 18-25 year old proprietors of YouTube clone websites?

How about everything that you said plus a price tag of $199 for the 8GB version (7 more than the Bold). For $199 you don't even get a QWERTY Blackberry you get a Pearl. I guess that this requires a rewrite of the 10 points because the Pearl is in less of a position to take on the iPhone than the Curve or Bold.

Personally I love the Blackberry over the iphone any day. PERIOD. The iphone is just a piece of eye candy. It be like from the movie "Lord of the Rings" "My Precious" Also it would be like saying i want to by that new "SHINY THING" Its soooooo SHINY! I must have that SHINY THING. Blah! But, dont get me wrong. If i really wanted a toy that i could play with it would be a iphone. But for pratcially reasons and uses I prefer the Blackberry over the iphone.

Not a bad post for someone who seems to have a lot of time on their hands. Bottom line is it comes down to each individuals requirements period.

Hmm try reading the comment, I separated the true business user from the younger user.
As for the 35% of Fortune 500...I do believe I covered my thoughts on that as well.
And just on a personal level, being a MOD on the Crackberry forums we work hard to keep the crap off the site, theiphone blog forums has 1,103 members, Crackbery has 194,145....so Ummm..ya, you think our jobs as MODS to filter out the crap may be just a little bit harder?

@Rene and the "better for business" rebuttal.
They have no reasons outside of pop culture status. From visiting the CrackBerry forums, I am willing to bet money that 95% of the people claiming the BlackBerry is better for business have never used their BB for business a day in their life. They say it because it is the common assumption that they have heard bounced around, and they grab onto it and repeat it in order to make themselves feel like they are important.
BlackBerry has reached icon status in today's pop culture, and that status is "business phone." The non-business, BIS using, consumer side loves to grap hold of that status though, and boy do they love to spout it out at every opportunity.
Sure, there are some legitimate business users saying that the BlackBerry is better for business, and they are the ones that usually back their comment up. Funny that pretty much nobody has backed their comment up in this fanboy-fest of a comments section though... Wonder why that is...
If someone claims that a BlackBerry is better for business, and refuses to back that up with any kind of realistic reasoning, the reason is that they are a typical consumer user clinging to that pop-culture status.

I am not talking about the troll threads, or the repeat threads, or anything else like that.
I am referring to the threads about what "name" you have given your Berry, where do you put your Berry to sleep, or the really scary ones like, "OMG, I dropped my Berry and now I hate life because it has a scratch on it, WAAAA."
Repeat questions, troll topics, and other things of that nature are normal. The topics that are like the ones I just mentioned are scary. Nobody should be that attached to a phone.... it just isn't healthy.
By the way, the iPhone Blog Forum isn't the only forum in existence for iPhones. I said forumS I frequent, not forum...

You've gone off topic from the whole post at this point.
They call it CrackBerry for a reason, if you have no appreciation for it, that's fine with me to each his own..but you just "generalized" all CrackBerry users, the same thing you scolded me for.
I personally partake in all the SPE websites, you'll see news from me posted on Wmexperts, CrackBerry and iPhoneblog as well as TreoCentral, so attacking my "iPhone" comments and reading to far into them at this point really is all on you.

I am a MACBook Pro user and I love it! I think Apple is great and does quality work! However, this doesn't mean everything they do is the best! I was all set and psyched to buy the iPhone....I got my iphone cash out and went to go buy it and even had to go several times cuz the store would never get a decent amount of iphones in stock to sell. After a week of back and forth, I started playin' with the iphone at the store. In deed, it's a great TOY! But, I will be buying the Blackberry Bold! The turn-around for me was the touch keyboard! You claim that the BB qwerty buttons are so small, when the touch keyboard "buttons" are basically the same size and I'm a girl that has real small fingers! Another issue with that is, I have my nails wrapped, to keep them hard and long, so I always type with the tip of my nails and you can't do that on the iphone's touch keyboard! When I tried to type with my fingers, it would always hit the wrong letter! After reading a ton of articles and reviews, unbiased & biased, most agree that the iphone is NOT meant for texting or writing emails, etc. Almost all the issues you criticized about the BB is addressed and solved with the BB Bold!
One more thing, you went on & on about all these new apps and the video about doctors viewing medical reports on the iphone! Well, as a patient of several doctors and a former med-student, there is no way in hell that I would let a doctor diagnose me just by reviewing my case on an iphone!!! Are you kidding!! Please!!!
Like I said, yes, it's a kool toy! But not for everyday use for business or anything productive! Also, as far as "BB copying the iphone," look at the world and all the companies! Everybody copies everybody, including Apple! Plus, a person needs to test which phone suits them best for what they need and are looking for! I don't think you can compare BB's and iphones! They are too different!!!

Marina, yet another who claims the iPhone is just a toy and is "not for business," yet doesn't give a good reason why. The keyboard and your nails are not enough of an argument to give weight to your "not for business" comment.
What business are you in? How do you use your BB for business? What can it bring to your business that the iPhone can't?
You can state your OPINION that the iPhone isn't for business until you are blue in the face, but your opinion doesn't make it fact. If you are prepared to make the claim that the iPhone isn't for business, that is fine, so long as you actually back it up. The "back it up" part is what most of you are forgetting to do.
Blaize. I never generalized the entire CrackBerry community. I said there are more of those types of posts on CrackBerry than any iPhone forum I have ever frequented. I said that there are more childish and immature type posts and topics on CrackBerry than any iPhone forum I have ever frequented. I said it is ironic how that is the case, yet the CrackBerry community loves to interject that the iPhone is a toy and not for business, when it is obvious that the vast majority of the CrackBerry community ALSO uses their BlackBerry as a toy. I never said that the entire CrackBerry community is like that, just the majority. You can't even deny it, because as a mod, you know how especially true it is.
I also understand that it is a fan site, but there is a difference between being a fan and being a fanatic. Anyone that puts enough emphasis on their phone that they would actually name it, or have a special place for it to "sleep," is pushing the limits, even for a fan.

Um, Tom. I think you need to realize that the Blackberry dominated before "pop culture" was even a consideration. "Pop" culture and the Business world are two different monsters. And your assumption that BIS users are not "Business" users is plainly ignorant. Many Blackberry users are Small Business owners that can't afford an Enterprise server setup. Others are people like me who have jobs that don't supply us with a pda/phone but require being constantly connected to our work data, email, internet, and phone all while being packaged in a fairly sturdy well proven platform. We need stability, reliability, and durability. Blackberry gives us that. iPhones are a bit to delicate, a bit to unproven, and don't have the features required for that. When I am on a scene I can use my berry to look up prescription drug data, GPS directions, etc... all with the press of a PHYSICAL button. That is the key since I usually have latex, extrication, or full on firefighter gloves on. I can use my Berry to instantly access my department email to get shift updates, departmental announcements, (or just plain see if anyone is writing me) without having to do anything other than click "Messages". (direct push email is really nice) If I am in the mood I can download and install apps on the fly (no iTunes needed), I can drag 'n drop media items to and from my berry with nothing but a USB cable and the windows Explorer/OS X Finder (no iTunes needed). I can make my own FREE RINGTONES (no iTunes needed). And I can use the Berry to send and receive images via MMS. This is nice since I am away from home for 24-36 hrs at a time and I otherwise would miss out on a lot of good moments with my 3 children (no MMS on iPhone). An iPhone would be woefully inadequate for me. The iPhone is a powerful, well thought out device. But it isn't the end-all-be-all that it is made out to be.

I imagine that the reason many users say that "Blackberry is better for business" is that it handles all corporate e-mail, regardless of origin, quite well. Not all corporations use Outlook. Some use Novell Groupwise. Some use Lotus Notes. And the list goes on. Blackberry has the ability to handle all the different systems and securely push the e-mail seemlessly to the device.
That being said, I have been waiting for a 3G version of the iPhone to come out ever since the original was announced as an Edge-only device. I can't wait until July 11, when I will gladly retire Windows Mobile for good and switch to iPhone 3G.

Please don't claim to tell me I am ignorant to the ways of RIM and BIS users occasionally being small business, or independent business uers. I have been using RIM devices for several years, and I have learned them inside and out. Maybe you should actually read the forum I am talking about before you misinterpret my comment about BIS users.
Considering the size of the "physical buttons" on the BlackBerry, I have an extremely hard time believing that you are using them with any accuracy whilst wearing full firefighter gloves. Call me crazy, but I can't accurately press the buttons on my Curve while I wear workout gloves, let alone gloves as thick as the ones you are talking about...
The rest of your comments are unfounded. Nothing you mentioned you do over BIS can't be done with the iPhone. Nothing.
-The App Store is OTA.
-MMS is not a business related app by any stretch of the imagination, and it can be accomplished on the iPhone with a very simple workaround. I am not going to go into detail, but if you look hard enough, I promise that you will find it.
-The iPhone being delicate is YOUR opinion. Go look up some real world stress tests and see for yourself. I have personally dropped an iPhone from head height and not had it break, while I have dropped a Curve from waist height and had the screen crack. It all depends on angle of impact.
-The iTunes integration between the iPhone and your PC/Mac is so seamless, it is actually easier than drag and drop. I personally don't even know anyone that doesn't have iTunes installed on their PC, and all Macs come preloaded with it. I fail to see how this is a major deal breaker, but whatever. This is still not any sort of argument that actually adds weight to the iPhone being an unacceptable business phone.
-The iPhone has GPS, Google Maps, and can give you those same directions.
-You can create free ringtones for the iPhone too. You need to hook a Berry up to your PC to get a personally created ringtone on there, so it is no different than what you would do with the iPhone. The only change is using iTunes instead of drag and drop.
The only thing you have said that I can't comment against is the latex gloves situation. Like I said, I have a hard time believing you are doing anything that requires typing, scrolling, or the pressing of more than a convenience key, on a BlackBerry with firefighter gloves on. Latex, on the other hand, is different. It is thin, doesn't detract from finger dexterity, and is pretty much like not wearing gloves at all. Which leads me to ask, are you absolutely certain you can't use the iPhone while wearing latex gloves? Have you tried? The iPhone doesn't work when you are wearing thick gloves, like leather, but due to the nature of the technology in the touchscreen, it may actually work through thin latex.
You are welcome to your opinion all day. Your opinion still doesn't add weight to the argument that the iPhone is not a capable business device though, especially considering everything you said is all but moot, save for the glove problem.

Some thoughts (excuse my bad English) why I haven't replaced my BB with my iPhone for bussiness yet:
When I need to find some details in a message someone send to me a week ago for example, it takes me less then 30 seconds to find it on my BB using the search and filter options. On my iPhone I have a list of the last 200 messages and it takes me forever to find a message just swiping up and down and opening and closing messages. No search and filter options to be found. Most of the time I just give up and use the BB to find the message.
When I have someone on the phone asking for an appointment it takes me just 2 keypresses on my BB to see my calendar in week view. I can then easily locate some available time all with one hand. With the iphone I also get to my calendar, but there is no week view. I have to pick day by day to see where I have enough time available. Takes a lot more time. Entering an appointment on the iPhone also takes a lot more time, but I can accept that.
What I haven't found yet on the iPhone is decent options for repeating appointments and meetings. Sure it has basic stuff like "every week", but can somebody advise me how I enter a meeting every second and fourth tuesday of the month for example? Most of the repeat options I need simply are not there I think. Correct me if I am wrong.
I could go on and on with al the power options that are missing from the mail and calendar application. Once they fix that the iPhone will be the ultimate bussiness tool. However I wonder how they are going to integrate all of these options in the current GUI model.
I love the iphone very much. Reading messages and visiting webpages is far better on it then on a BB. But they still need a lot of things to get right. The far more flexible keyboard of the iPhone is an advantage over a BB. Mail and calendar however lack the basic functionalities to really manage your messages and schedule in an effective way.
I hope this is a reply to the many questions about why the BB is better for bussiness use for now.
My apologies again for my bad English.

Congratulations WatersWest. You are the very first person to actually give a real, founded reason as to why the iPhone may not be able to hack it in the business world. I do wonder just what the percentage of corporations using non-Outlook PIM and email solutions is though.
On a side note, why are all you iPhone haters even here? This is an iPhone fansite, not a BlackBerry site. You didn't see droves of iPhone users flooding CrackBerry when Kevin did his "10 reasons the iPhone is STILL no Bold;" did you? No, there were like 5 or 6 iPhone defense posts out of the 110 or so comments...
Nobody told you that you had to agree with this list. Just like nobody forced you to come here and read it. If you hate the iPhone that much, and you are happy with your antiquated BB OS, why don't you go back to BB world and let us have our opinion here. I mean, this is "The iPhone Blog" after all...

"Is the iPhone still missing some hotly demanded features like cut-and-paste? Sure, but it’s only ever a firmware update away."
This will be the 5th firmware update and they still cannot get common standard features on the phone.
Where is my call time? Where is my sound options for voicemail, new mail, etc.?
Where the heck is playlist management? It is so lame that I have to create a playlist on my computer, add songs to it, then sync the songs to my iPhone. You have an on screen keyboard for christ’s sake! We need to have the ability to create playlists and and songs to them on the iPhone. Yes, whoopdie-do, you have “On-The-Go” playlists. Big deal, you have had that feature on your iPods for a long time.
Let’s say you pause your music using the little button on the headphones. Time goes by, and you are ready to resume your music. You hit the button, but huh? The music doesn’t play. Now I have to go back to iPod, and start my music all over again. How much time before the phone thinks that I am done with my music? Why aren’t we able to customize this?
The iPhone does not recognize when an existing contact is already in the phone. Ex. I added John Doe on 9/23, and on 9/25 I had forgot that I had added him and created a new contact with the same exact contact name and number. The iPhone didn’t recognize that the contact was already in the address book and there were two entries of the same contact. How the heck did you miss this in your months of testing?
I hate you Apple.

For starters TOM, all you've done is criticise everybody else's comments! You say there are unfounded reasons why people say BB is more for business and then BB users give you reasons and you still don't find them to your liking!!! You haven't even said anything thats so great about the iphone and only like to bash on everybody else's comments! You say BB users shouldn't be so attached to a ceelphone but look at what you're doing!!! You're just as, if not more attached to your iphone than anyone!!! Then you say that me not being able to type on the iphone with my nails isn't a good enough reason!? Who are you? I seriously hope Apple is paying you to defend their iphone so much! OH, but anyone who's that attached to their phone is crazy right!? LOL! And, have you seen the Crackberry forum? I doubt it cause if you did you would know that iphone users make comments on there all the time!! It's a free country dude!
I wasn't even gonna state this before but now I will! Why is Apple dropping the price by HALF!!?? Could it be they are preparing for the BB Bold competition?! Nobody has to sit here and prove to you why the BB is more for buisness cause they can just read why! And have you tried to type on the iphone w/latex gloves on!? I doubt it cuz it doesn't work!! Or it will work a little bit, which is still just as annoying! And yes, BB users can use it as a toy too but its still more productive so its 2 in 1!
Also, the article is full of the saying, "Sure, it can't...." Well, when the iphone CAN do that stuff, then you can boast about it! I did say that both phones were great and it depends on what you need your phone to do, to choose which 1 to buy!
Stop just criticising everybody and move on dude!

Awww... Do you feel better now Marina?
People have stated reasons why the BlackBerry is better for business? Funny, I saw one, by a Mr. WatersWest. Outside of his comment, every single thing said about the BlackBerry being better was opinion. Pure and simple opinion, not fact.
There has not been one legitimate reason stated about why the BlackBerry is better. You can't just say it is capable of more productivity and be done with it. You need to say WHY it is capable of more productivity.
If it is your opinion that BlackBerrys are better for business, you should follow the statement with "in my opion." Or, you can start the statement, with "I think the."
Both of those simple lines of text turn a factual statement into an opinion, which is nothing more than everyone in this "thread" has stated.
-I think the iPhone is a toy. Sorry, this isn't a reason.
-I think the iPhone is more for media. Sorry, this isn't a reason.
-I know the iPhone will have full Exchange support, as well as support in house application building and distribution, but I just think the BlackBerry is better for business. Sorry, this isn't a real reason.
I have no attachment to the iPhone, and I don't even own one at this point in time. I do have an attachment to logical reasoning though. Comparing me to a fanatic that names their phone, puts their phone to "sleep" on a special pillow, or prepares for physical violence when someone else touches their precious Berry, is absolutely hysterical.
I am just for acceptance of various devices. I am all for debate founded in actual reasoning, not opinion. All I have said is that if you are going to claim the BlackBerry is so much better for business, you do it with real reasons founded in fact, not opinion, and you actual do it with an understanding of what the iPhone is capable of.
I am sorry you can't comprehend this though.

I have Mac everything and i love Steve Jobs-
had an iPhone for 2 months and went back to a BB
upon hearing the 3G announcement started thinking iphone again...
then found out there's still no mms, still no guarantee the 3rd party apps will be great... still no copy and paste(seriously if you REALLY DO USE YOUR PHONE FOR BUSINESS you know that this can be a deal-breaker by itself) and while i didnt mind the iPhones keyboard for short messages-plain and simple its a pain in the a@# for anything more than a couple sentences. Now back and forth we blah blah blah-yack yack yack- shut up and use what you want. iPhoners tho are starting to look like a bunch of whiners pushing the same old features and continuing to downplay the importance of what the iPhone lacks.
im out

I've never owned a BB device of any kind so I can't make an informed enough decision as to whether one is ultimately better than the other. All I can offer is some observances of my experience as compared to other "smart" phones I've owned.
I've had physical keyboard devices and I thought I'd never be able to get to the iPhone's virtual keyboard, but I did. This last year I've missed several features from that device which the iPhone just doesn't offer, but with the impending App Store I'm sure I'll be able too add something comparable sometime in the near future.
Surfing the web on my earlier devices was painful at best and surfing on the iPhone is a dream. I often will hop on the iPhone to surf before I even consider using my laptop computer. I can find useful stuff on the web and search multiple pages in a fraction of the time it often took me to even find a link in a web page I was visiting on my other device. And Flash? Who needs it? I thought I would but I don't miss it and I certainly don't miss all the ads that are made using it.
Overall, my experience with the iPhone, despite its many shortcomings (cut & past is all I'm asking for) has hands down been the best phone, device experience I have ever had. Would I love the BB more if I used it instead? I doubt it but it serves an important purpose and many people are happy with it, and I say, more power too them. Now can we all just get along?

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read...nice way to look like a dope. The Iphone sucks. The new Iphone will also suck.
One reason why there are "constant Improvements"...the real reason behind that is, cause Apple can't get it right the first time, so every so often they shoot out a "update" which finally fixes the problem, or adds a feature that should have been there in the first place.
The only reason I even read your stupid "reasoning" is cause they posted something on Crackberry about this.

Thank YOU!!!! BBMaximus!!!! Is that a good enough reason for you TOM!!! Which btw, did you guys see... "I have no attachment to the iPhone, and I don’t even own one at this point in time."...LOL!!! Are you serious!? You're gonna sit here and criticise and you don't even own either!? Do you even work?? Oh and before you try to comment on that, YES, I do work, volunteer for a non-profit organization, and I am a psych/art student. I have time to respond to your ridiculous comments because I am on vacation! And you're not my teacher! And you say you're in acceptance of all smartphones but all your talkin about is the iphone! Did you notice that almost every BB user has said at least 1 good thing about the iphone too, including me!? But you just want to criticise and basically make no sense! And how dare you try to take a shot at my intelligence! You don't know me and at this point I def. would not want to know you! Do you comprehend that TOM!?

I think it's safe to say that this dead horse has been sufficiently beaten on all the reasons for one versus another. It's all anyone has posted for weeks now.
Crackberries will never buy the iPhone and like me, many will never touch the BB. It's all about consumer choice, baby!
A lot of generalized statements here, but mostly, just because YOU can't use an iPhone for business doesn't mean that I can't.

I have an older blackberry model (8700c) and an iPod touch. I love both devices and use them all the time. However I cannot imagine using an iPhone even over my older BB any time (for the record, I never spent alot of time on an iphone but assume that for the most part, the ipod Touch is essentially just an "iphone without the phone" so correct me where I'm wrong).
Voice Dailing: I'm surprised the new iphone doesn't have it. My current blackberry doesn't have it either but I've missed it on many occasions as my old phones did have it. The Bold has it though and I will be glad to have it back assuming I go in that direction. It has nothing to do with business but everything to do with ease of use.
Cut & Paste: This is the real deal breaker for me. I use it all the time and could not imangine being able to do any work with my phone without it unless all I do is read email and surf the web. If you ask me, it should be a standard for any mobile device that calls itself a smartphone and I'd really like to know Apple's thought process in not including it yet again. Sure, maybe it will come in a firmware update but maybe it won't. If I'm to think of an iPhone as a true productivity tool then the bottom line is that it needs to have it. That said, there are many BB users who only use it for email and have no need of c&p, but I'm not one of them. Not that it matters anyway as my company (a Fortune 500 company BTW) would almost certainly never support the iphone in its current state.
Keyboard/Screen: I've gotten better with the virtual keyboard but let's all be honest here. People can claim they can use the virtual keyboard better than a physical one but until I see virtual keyboards outselling physical ones for laptops and desktops I will call shennanigans on them. If people really they're better with a virtual keyboard then they should chuck the physical ones for all their computers.
I could get by with a virtual keyboard but I will sacrifice the screenspace on my blackberry for it since I do so much typing on it. I don't do much typing on the Touch so the virtual keyboard is fine though a bit challenging at times. I do like the extra screen space but I really don't want to have to zoom in and out of a webpage so I can read it every time. Maybe there is some setting I can change to fix this but even though the BB browsers have been a sore point with me for a while, at least on this particular issue they outperform my Touch.
3rd party Apps: I'm not a big user of them but probably will use them more in the future. The real issue I have with Apple is that I don't want big brother deciding for me whether I should have a particular app or not. For once Apple should just give me the freedom to use my devices the way I want to.
Form over function: I never really cared about how my phone looks. Naturally I love the sleek look of my Touch over my clunky blackberry or even my brother's curve, but I don't allow the practical realities take a back seat to that. I'm not saying my current BB doesn't need a facelift but I'm not getting the Bold (so far) just because it looks good or has a newer interface. The information presented in that interface is what makes it good, not whether it looks like Win 3.1, DOS or whatever, as long as it provides all the information I need and when I need it.
A lot of the differences don't matter much to me for now but I'm sure that when I get a Bold and update (hopefully) my iPod touch's firmware ($$$!!) I'll be more tuned into the differences being touted on each side. I mean stereo bluetooth sounds fun but what's that got to do with business and why would I ever use it on an iPhone anyway?

So I went to the BlackBerry Admin for my company, as well as the Celllular contact/access rep, and asked about the iPhone for business. The blackberry admin punched me in the throat, and the Cell access rep told me to stick the iphone where the sun dont shine.. in the shower of some lame ass hipster wannabe

No, actually, it didn't Marina. Oh, I think there is something wrong with your shift, or caps-lock key(s), you seem to type my name in all caps. Might want to check the keyboard.
For your information, I have used BlackBerrys for over 2 years, and I currently use the Curve. Where did you ever get the idea that I don't have one? I have also had an iPhone, which I used for 6 months. My son broke it by smashing it screen first into the corner of a table a few times when I wasn't looking. My fault for leaving my phone in the reach of a 6 month old...
You seem to be getting very defensive for no reason. I never attacked your intelligence, but I still don't think you can comprehend the point of any of my comments. I am trying to debate with the people that say the iPhone isn't for business, and that the BlackBerry is better. All I have asked for is real reasons why it is better. Reasons that aren't compromised of opinions that is.
Your take on the keyboard, or BBMaximus' take on cut and paste and the keyboard aren't reasons. They are your respective opinions on features. A reason would be that it can't handle Exchange, it can't do business applications, it doesn't have email, it doesn't have a way to view attachments, etc. With me now? The keyboard is the least of the reasons it isn't an acceptable business device. It may make it your opinion that it isn't a good business device for YOU, but that doesn't make it universally true. There are many people that can type equally fast on the iPhone keyboard as they can on a BlackBerry keyboard...
I do work as a matter of fact. Where did you get the idea that I don't? I work in the capacity of an independent contractor, and my office is in my home. I am free to spend my days as I see fit, and I had nothing pressing today, so I was able to hang around here. Not sure what that has to do with anything though...
You keep getting defensive and you try to "yell" at me while proclaiming your intelligence, yet you still miss my point.
If you are going to knock the iPhone as a business device, you need to back it up with valid reasoning. I don't understand why you can't understand what I am typing. It isn't that hard.
I understand that people have said good things about the iPhone. The good things have generally consisted of saying it is a good web browser and media player, which they usually follow up by saying it isn't good for business.
The simple question, is why? If you are going to make a broad statement that the iPhone is not a good business device, you need to back it up with broad reasoning, not your personal reasoning. Personal reasoning is your opinion and it affects you, and you alone. Broad reasoning is something that will affect everyone, and nobody in this thread of bickering has been able to say what the iPhone is missing that would affect everyone to the point of preventing its use as a capable business device.
The only person to present a viable reason was WatersWest and his/her mentioning of the Exchange support being limited to an Outlook environment.
Everything else has been a persons example of why it doesn't work for them. The problem is that they are using their personal reasoning as a broad exclamation of the iPhone not being business capable.
As far as liking other phones. I don't care if you like the iPhone or not. Bashing it needlessly is not ok by me though, and I will defend it when I see it happen. If someone is going to put down the iPhone, the least they could do is understand what it is capable of before doing so.
The fact that I am defending it while not currently owning one, and while I DO currently own a Curve, speaks volumes about my open mindedness.
Ok, you can yell at me some more now.

I am seriously considering dumping all of my blackberry's for the iphone. We are an AT&T shop with over 600 mobile messaging users and the data plan for the BB's with AT&T are just too expensive. The open standards that the iphone has, in my opinion will quickly ramp up a significant amount of development with regards to porting business applications like Siebel, JDE etc. I have been supporting Active Sync push email from my organization for 4 years and our CE users are very happy with the service. I'll save $60 per month / per device that I convert to iPhone. The price of the device are comparable, the monthly recurring costs I feel favor the iphone as the right choice.

It all boils down to preference. I'm a BB guy since the units have intergrated well with the things I do in life (business/personal). I agree, Iphone has a web browser that is top notch, but that is the end of the line for me. I have used a BB for several years; visiting many countries in various situations and it did the job. The BB still has the image "I am serious about my business/work." Apple has to prove that to the enterprise customer in the same manner they have with the consumer market. Also, they must shake AT&T exclusitivety (we all know why) otherwise the boast of competing in the enterprise market is a hoax. Lets not forget, BB has several units which catter to different genre of consumer along with a touch-screen and clam shell units of its own due out by summer to the end of the year. Apple is good at what they do, but BB has a name and reputation for being reliable. You can take two empty cans, tie a string, attach the BB/RIMM label and it will sell. Can Apple do that????? We shall find out!

Tom your stating that missing features such as cut and paste are not reasons for not using the iPhone as a business phone baffle me. Do you own a hot dog stand or something? Then I might be able to unerstand where your coming from-cant imagine the need for things like cut+paste being very valuable if your peddlin weinies-but otherwise can't see why you can't admit that theBB is a better business tool. I can admit that the BB is not a multi-media powerhouse like the iPhone (that's why I have an ipod touch) but saying-or excuse me deffending it as a better business optio...maybe for the weiner sellers out there!
Got your back homegirl

Tom, as for the caps, they were a way to direct the comment toward you! And I haven't been yelling, 1st off you don't know since you can't hear my voice! 2nd, I'm not gonna sit here and type some long a** email to show you facts! Anyone that wants to know facts can easily read the BB specs vs. the iphone specs. 3rd, I stated in my 1st comment, you canot compare the 2 because they are too different! Apples are Apples and Oranges are Oranges or BBs so to speak. The BB is not for everyone and the iphone isn't for everyone! You're right I did assume incorrectly about you not having a BB, since you have been completely defending the iphone and never once mentioned you had a BB and you said you didn't have an iphone.
Last time I checked, this was a forum and therefore, a place for everyone to state their opinions! So, I don't have to constantly say, "in my opinion." The BB is a better business for all the reasons previously mentioned and for most, the keyboard does make a huge difference when responding to business emails, as well as the push. And you didn't type "in my opinion" in all your comments either. You also assumed, that most BB users that say its better for business, do not even use it for business! You say i needlessly bashed the iphone when i didn't. All I was trying to say was I tried the iphone and really wanted it but it wasnt for me! But you seem to be the type of person that needs to have the last word in, so feel free.

I am not stating my opinions. I am asking questions. Therefore, I don't need to round them off with "in my opinion," or anything else that denotes my stating an opinion.
It seems you have finally come to understand my point though. You said the iPhone is just not for you. That is it, plain and simple. It isn't for you. You don't represent the world however, and just because it isn't for you, doesn't mean it isn't for everyone. Saying the iPhone is good for media, but not for business is a person's opinion, and they are welcome to it. Claiming that it just outright isn't a capable business tool as a whole is an entirely different story, and is the only point I was trying to make.
BBMaximus... Cut and paste is not exactly a pivotal need for business use. The thing that made the BlackBerry so popular for business was push email, not cut and paste. I am sorry that you feel the need to assume that I "peddle wieners" because I don't need cut and paste to accomplish my business needs. How very short sighted of you.
I never even said that the iPhone was better. I merely said it was very capable, and I asked for anyone that believed otherwise to back it up with fact, not opinion. Better is a subjective term that applies to each and every person differently. I read more email and view more attachments than I do send and reply, so to me, yes, the iPhone is better. It is my opinion, and therefore can't be wrong.
What you missed, is that I am not trying to force my opinion on anyone. I never claimed the iPhone was better, just very capable. Sure, cut and paste is a nice tool, but it is one that I can live without. You may need it, so it may be your opinion that the BlackBerry is better, but I don't, so it is my opinion that it isn't.
Neither is better than the other, and both are equally capable is what I was trying to get at. They both have strengths that make up for their weaknesses, and it is a subject of a person's individual needs to determine what is better. That being the case, what is better will always be opinion.
None of those opinions grant a person the right to say the iPhone isn't capable when it most certainly is, however. None of those opinions give a person the right to say the iPhone just plain sucks for business. It is very capable, and it being better is all a matter of interpretation.
I am sorry you can't understand that.

I was just curious what IPhone users and believers thought about the $199 announcement as well the $10 increase for the AT&T data plan? For the two year contract that comes out to be $240. So was the $199 that exciting?

Another week and another who's the best smartphone article. I have supported mobile devices since the Palm III and currently oversee 3000+ mobile devices, 2300 of which are various BB models.
I've used an iphone EDGE since before the launch, I'm in the OS 2.0 beta since build 1 and am firmly in one of those fortune 500 companies.
The iphone is a fantastic advance in how people view mobility and what is possible when it's properly executed. It's core is still consumer based with some business "features" added.
Here is my take on the iphone in the enterprise:
Dump Itunes - I want nothing to do with supporting the deployment or activation through Itunes. Do we really care if users can sync their media collection? Do we want users media files (possible of not legal origin) on our systems? So fine I setup a few workstations that can used for activation but that severalt impacts my ability to deploy devices and adds a day or two to deployment schdules. OTA activation is where it's at and Apple needs to get there.
Device Management - ActiveSync is crap and anyone who thinks it's as good or better then true BES push has never used it. ActiveSync is notorious for flacking out and I've seen the same behavior in OS 2.0, so you reboot and it works for awhile then redo as it stops working. It also sucks your battery down. There are limited policy management with ActiveSync - password policy, device timeout and remote wipe. That's it. Where is the ability to turn off features we don't want? What about turning off the camera, ability to disable installation of 3rd party software? For the record the password timeout doesn't work 100% and the invalid password attempts flat out is junk to me .. I want the device to erase after invalid attempts and not rely on yes .. connecting to Itunes to unlock.
Working Wireless Sync - ActiveSync is still not working that well with Wireless Calendar, this was a bear for RIM and took actually around a year to get working properly so I fully expect if Apple meets their "ealy July" date some functionality will just be a work in progress.
Through the Beta I've passed our iphones around to heavy mobile users and the reponse is the same ... "nice device, I'll stick with my Blackberry". #1 reason for not wanting one is the lack of a physical keypad, these were saavy users who live for "toys" so if they can't be bothers after 2 weeks of use how will the CEO, CFO react? If anything I see adoption as a secordy personal device that will allow media playback, some internet browsing and if needed a quick check of email on the weekend.
I also want to touch on this who concept that RIM shares email, for one it's not possible as my BES to Blackberry has a unique encrypted key (we use AES and triple DES) so even if the encrypted packets to be "hacked" it would take time to break said security.
And lastly all the slams on the NOC .. yeah outages stink and it's part of mobility growth. What other company is putting up 99.99% SLA? MobileME is basically a NOC so it will be amusing when it has an outage and everyone who is relying on it is suddenly without email sync. I believe .mac had such a outage not too long ago.
Thanks for reading.

well written and thoughtful post guys. How about keeping your money in the US (by way of China) vs. giving it to those wacky french wanna-be's north of the border. We're building a wall on the wrong side!

I have used the iPhone and the BlackBerry. Granted I have used the latter considerably more than the iPhone but I must still lean towards the RIM solution. I am on a BES so before any of you rip into me for not being a business user, I am. I think each device has their merits and should be judged according to the intended purpose that the manufacturer has intended.
We can mostly agree that BlackBerry is a business device with some entertainment features and the iPhone is a lifestyle device with some business features. Now I haven't had extensive use of the iPhone but here are my impressions of it at this point.
The speakers on it is horrid. They are not loud whatsoever even at full blast. The camera is a bit shoddy for something that touts it's multimedia capabilities. the headphone jack is something I am glad they are fixing but it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. The screen is very nice. The interface overall is very nice. They keyboard is infuriating. Even with the predictive text. Many of the times, specific internal company terms are not recognized by the iPhone so already, it falls behind in the a business environment. And lets just say we use it in the context of personal life, are slang words part of the predictive text? Not nearly enough. so then you still have to fall back on typing accurately on a keyboard that offers no physical feedback. If all it took was "some getting used to", then Apple would be making full touch sensitive keyboards because that would reduce the number of moving parts required for a computer and make it thinner. But they don't because we do still need tactile feedback whether we can admit it or not.
The BlackBerry as a lifestyle device is obviously not as good as the iPhone but the core of the users are not that. HTML emails and streaming are upcoming features so in terms of entertainment, its catching up. But looking at BlackBerry as a business device, the security is basically what sets it apart from other platforms. Triple DES and AES encryption on pretty much all messages that come out of the handheld, Remote kill commands, IT policies that can limit almost any feature on the device. That's what makes it so good to have in a corporate environment.

doh.. mobile admin basically said everything I said while I took my jolly old time.. I was busy at work not listening to music and watching youtube vids on my device.

Tom,
Seems that you are spending A LOT of your time defending your stance on the iPhones status. Accept it, iPhone/Apple while sticking to opensource is now a Microsoft slave with Activesync. You leave out the millions of email clients that use Lotus Notes. Why is that? RIM worked with IBM, Samsung, and others to become compatible, and offer an enduser/enterprise solution. RIM has offerings for Notes, Outlook, Groupwise, as well as BIS connections. How would it look to get an corporate email from a client, and respond from yahoo or google? Methinks that would be childish. Grow up guys, Blackberries are for the grown ups, let the teenie boppers stroke their toy....

I've got both iPhone and Blackberry. Even though I love my iPhone I'm far more productive with my Blackberry. The iPhone for me is a great toy while the Blackberry is a tool for the "dirty work" and I actually have no intention to change that. :-)

I think there's been an awful lot of hot air expended in this thread, on both sides of the fence Passions, it seems, run high.
I've used Blackberries and and Treos in the past and am currently an iPhone user. Each platform has it's merits.
Here's my perspective on the whole thing:
Some Blackberry users are being deliberately obtuse when they describe the iPhone as a "toy". There is a highly sophisticated operating system underpinning the iPhone which is capable of so much more than Blackberry OS (as it currently stands). The potential for companies to develop sophisticated, graphically rich applications on the iPhone is clearly there, and some firms will definitely be looking into this.
The lamentable web browsing on a Blackberry is a definite weakness, and we'll have to see if the new web browser is significantly better. Web applications are cheap to develop and cheap to roll out; combine this with the ease of navigation on the iPhone, and it's big, bright, sharp screen, and you have a perfect device for salesmen and others to tap into centralized databases of parts and products - and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
Certain operations on the Blackberry are, indeed, quicker, such as placing a call and the fact that the Blackberry has a universal inbox for all messages - emails and texts. However, this advantage is offset on the iPhone by the overall ease of use and navigation which can only be achieved with a touch screen optimized for finger use.
Email on the Blackberry has weaknesses, too: html mail, poor attachment rendering, and lack of support for imap folder systems. For me, and, I'm sure for others, the lack of imap folder support makes the Blackberry a non-starter.
Criticism of the iPhone's keyboard by some Blackberry fans is overstated. I know of one person who can type at more than 50 wpm on his iPhone. Personally, I can type around 30 wpm on average, with few or no errors - and that's just using my index finger. Moreover, if you do make a typo, it's easier to correct on the iPhone because of the magnifying glass feature which allows you to reposition the cursor quickly. One thing I miss from my Blackberry is the user customizable dictionary (the iPhone does learn some terms, over time, but it isn't transparent); however, I'm also willing to bet that most Blackberry owners, not geeks, have no idea that you can customize the dictionary.
MMS - Meh. This is irrelevant in the business context. Kids do use it though.
Lack of universal search on the iPhone is something I miss (Palm OS does it better than anybody). I have managed to live without it for a year, but certainly hope it is implemented soon, just as contact search has been.
Copy and Paste is missing from the iPhone and this is definitely irritating. However, I was equally irritated by how cumbersome the whole process was on my Blackberry. Would I rather have it on my iPhone? Certainly. does it make it "unusable" as a business device, or a "toy" as some here have described it? No.
Blackberry's current advantage in the number of third party applications available for the device will quickly be eroded, and probably overtaken, with the opening of the iPhone application store.
RIM has achieved a degree of success in the consumer space, but it lags a long way behind the iPhone in terms of ease of use, its multimedia capabilities, and the ecosystem built up around the iPod/iTunes partnership. Add to this the fact that the iPhone has clear potential as a gaming platform, and you have a winner - particularly among young people. Once they see Super Monkey Ball and other sophisticated games running on the iPhone (look out for the ads) they're going to flock to the device and they won't look back. And, remember, the twenty-somethings of today are the gray-suited business people of tomorrow.
As a final point, the ferocity with which both sides have pursued their arguments clearly shows that this is a real battle. The iPhone clearly has potential as an enterprise device, but not for all users, and not in all scenarios. Will it be rolled out on a large scale like Blackberries are at the moment? Probably not. But it will make its way into firms, large and small, and will IT departments will eventually stop saying no. Yes. My wife works for one of the world's top ten pharmaceutical companies and the iPhone is already an option for anyone who qualifies for a company-paid-for phone. Ironically, Blackberries are only provided to people who can make a business case for needing push-email.
There are lot's of nit picking, cheap shots that can be made on both sides of the fence. The Blackberry is a fantastic messaging device - no one does the quick fire, instant push thing better, but the iPhone has its strengths too, and to diminish those by calling it a "toy" and throwing insults around does the device and its users a disservice.
Anyway, those are just a few thoughts.

Needless to say, insults lobbed towards Blackberry users such as labeling them "corporate drones" or "cubicle rats" add nothing to the argument as well.

@Tom
I actually find it pretty simple to use my otterbox clad blackberry when wearing my heavy gloves. (although trying to get ANY phone out of a bunker coat while wearing an SCBA is simply comical to watch) I can press BOTH convenience keys and my volume keys. That means I can access at least 2 programs without even having to hit the scroll wheel first. And as long as I have access to VAD I can make calls. If I have on my MGU's (extrication gloves) I have all the dexterity I need to fully use the berry and all its functions.
As for using an iPhone to hook up with a computer that doesn't have iTunes? How many corporations do you think will allow their employees to install iTunes on a work terminal? Or government agencies like the one I wok for? Can you say productivity drop?
And for the record, I AM a member of the aforementioned forum. As well as several others. They all have good info even though they all have the same kind of crap posts that you are referring to. None of them are immune to idiocy. But I guess you didn't know THAT either.
Like I said..........ignorant.

Here's why I will use a BB over an iPhone.

  • One button to answer a call
  • Different form factors/features on the BB (iPhone is stupid big compared to my Pearl)
  • Copy/Paste (no way I could get through a day without it)
  • removable battery (I feel better on the road with an extra battery and no down time if a replacement is needed)

on the corporate side:
@ We can control every aspect of our BB's thru our BES
This means we can disable/enable almost anything remotely.
We can "kill" a lost BB
@Wireless syncing. We don't give our lawyers a USB cable only a wall charger. No need for a PC/mac to use the BBs
@We can provision our BB's remotely. So we hand our lawyers a BB and give them a password and in a few minutes they have a personalized BB.
Don't really care about the keyboard since it's a personal preference but since there is only 1 iPhone you get what Steve Jobs gives you. Where as the BB gives you different models to choose from depending on what you are looking for. Want something small get a Pearl, want something bigger and without a camera (some companies prohibit camera phones) get a 8800, want something in between, get a Curve. Want a flip model get a kickstart (future), want a full screen virtual keyboard, get the Thunder (future).
I can't stress how amazing the BES is when you are managing hundreds, if not thousands of devices. The iPhone has no chance in corporations without some sort of BES-like server. Is it even possible to provision an iPhone wirelessly?

@All,
A couple of quick questions/comments:
1) Thanks for the clarification(s) about what "better for business" means, though I suspect these are more "better for (my current) business", and as business models and spaces vary, needs will vary, and the App Store apps will target very specific, niche business needs in a pretty interesting way (as many devs have already talked about).
2) Likewise, even if you/we claim the Blackberry is "better for business", that's just one facet of a device and one space of needs addresses. For many would be buyers, being "better for business" might just equate to "so what?" If I'm a big iPod user and I don't want to have lug around a candybar feature phone, is Blackberry a "better" phone+iPod replacement? Each device has its previous area of excellence, what about looking beyond those and into overall appeal?
3) Things change. Currently, the iPhone is what's changing them in this space. That certainly benefits Blackberry users, as it pushes RIM to innovate faster (we all remember how Internet Explorer languished without competition). If RIM is even contemplating the Thunder, what does that say about the future of the space, and Blackberry's position in it?

If someone has to refer to their 'phone' for picture support or diagnostic, I seriously think they are in the wrong business. Would you want a mechanic looking at a 'phone' on how to repair your car?
The IPhone is easily replaced with an ITouch. Phone? I'll get another phone and use an ITouch as my waste of money...errrr toy.

Wow, is Tom the neighbor you really hate on your block or what? Most argumentive person I just about ever seen on these forums. He's a mod, so I am sure this will be removed but here’s my thoughts;
I love the iphone to look at, no doubt about it, its worth like one new chick at the mall per day. But I am an owner of a small business, and without the push email, I would have lost business, plain and simple. Now you tell me Apple will have a push email system as well with the 2nd generation... ok good for Apple to step up to this for people in the corp. world. However, how long have they had this technology, ummm about 15 minutes, so how can you go on such a short track record regarding push capability? Now 2 years from now if Apple has been successful at push email, then I could consider a change. I hope it does, I have 2 Macs and a MacBook, so the iphone could be considered a next step... but in a world that can pass you by in seconds I can not wait for Apple to say "oops" we didn’t realize it took 30 minutes to refresh your email or something like that. I am not saying they can not do it right, as I said Apple makes great products, the iphone being no exception, but I need my email to keep my on top of what I am doing. I can tell you at least 20 stories of how push email from my BB made me money, and that is the bottom line in this argument. I can buy an ipod touch for music until I am absolutely positive Apple gets the push email right.
BTW, the iphone browser is great, another thing that is pleasing to the eye. In the business world, I need number and fast, not something that has the full versions of websites. Stock exchange fast, BB does that, not sure about the iphone, it may, but I don’t care about the graphics and details, I want the numbers period.
Sorry for the long post, tried to give my personal opinion. And sorry Tommy, for poking fun at you, I am not mean just trying to interject some humor into something that was going sour fast... (But I am sure by the timings of your responses that you are living and dying with every post. =))

iPhone can get you the stock exchange in "numbers" faster than a BB can simply because it has a damned widget built into it that sits on the home screen.
I am not going to continue this, because it is absolutely infuriating how stupid you people are. Here's an idea, come out of your close minded shell and read what I wrote in post #65.
Read it?
What does it say?
That's right. Better is a subjective term that applies differently to each. For your business, push email may be the most important thing imaginable, and that makes a Berry better to you. Not to me, but to YOU.
All I ever said was that the iPhone is a CAPABLE business device. I never said it was a hands down, all around BETTER device. No, just CAPABLE.
Instead of understanding that, all of you from the BlackBerry defense league decided to single me out, refuse to acknowledge what I was saying, either because of stupidity or your inability accept that BlackBerry isn't the business device for everyone, and try to beat me. You have all failed, because you have all missed my very point.
You are without a doubt some of the stupidest, and/or most hardheaded individuals I have ever come across in all my days of participating in any form of open forum debate. Why don't you go back and find one place where I said the iPhone dominates BlackBerry for ALL business, and in every way imaginable for all business...
You can't, because I didn't.
You are the ones getting defensive and missing every point I am trying to make, yet I'm ignorant? The best part of this whole entire "thing," is that I never said BlackBerry sucks for business. Not once. I never said BlackBerry sucks for anything, for that matter...
I have reduced myself to battle the general stupidity too many times in this thread, and I won't be back to do it again, so I want to leave you with a definition. It might help you understand how to look beyond your wall of close minded favoritism and actually see my point.

  1. Capable: having the ability, fitness, or quality necessary to do or achieve a specified thing. Ex., The iPhone is capable of being a business device with its Exchange support and rich email experience.

That is all I ever said the iPhone was. Capable.
Ok, now you can resume your hypocritical insulting of me for having an open mind....

Tom,
I appreciate your insight and comments so try not to let over zealous fanboys (on either side) get to you. By nature I am a technology person and love to see advances in these things.
I think Apple has a harder battle then they believe as the Ipod world and Mobility are two different beasts. While the iphone does some fantastic things and has tremendous potential I think Blackberry has just as much. At the end Iphone will likely without a doubt have a larger user base as mobility is just starting to explode and by 2010 you will see 3x the number of people using devices like this. The growth in the personal/public sector outweights the corporate as we have used mobility and by now have large amount of infrastructure and budget dedicated to a mobile solution.
I need better management of the devices then what apple is providing. If I had a nickel for every device that came along and offered exchange connectivity I'd be writing this from a hammock on some tropical island. The device is part of the overall infrastructure and an extension of the enterprise, not a siloed device that is capable. Capable is not good enough for me and the data I am employed to protect.

Originally said by Tom:
"I am not going to continue this, because it is absolutely infuriating how stupid you people are........Ok, now you can resume your hypocritical insulting of me for having an open mind…."
Too much irony for one post. I call shenanigans!!

You are not included in anything I said MobileAdmin. You make very good points, and you actually back them up with sound reasoning. You are representative of what I am trying to get across. In your environment, the iPhone isn't there yet, and you explain why. You didn't come out and say that it sucks for all business, but that it doesn't work in yours. I respect that and I understand that.
Adam, I think you need to understand what irony is before you toss it around like that. You either chose to ignore, or you couldn't understand, the post, and you instead chose to pick out two lines and continue an attempt to insult me.
I have an open mind and I can accept the fact that the "better" device depends on the person and/or organization. I can accept that they both have their place, and I never said one was outright better than the other for the grande scale, and that the one that is better can only be determined by the user.
You, and the rest of your crew, are the ones that refuse to concede the point that the BlackBerry isn't the best device for everyone. You are the ones that keep claiming your personal reasoning as though they were everyone's reasons. You are the ones that keep referring back to how the BlackBerry has so many more business features than the iPhone, and when told that the iPhone can do all of the things you say it can't, you balk and call me ignorant.
I am talking about things from an open perspective. You are talking about things from a BlackBerry perspective while telling me I am the one that is ignorant, wrong, and close minded because I feel they both have their place. I am ignorant and wrong to you simply because I don't adhere to the same view you have.
I never said you were wrong to like BlackBerry. I simply said that the iPhone has its place in business all the same. I didn't try to sway you away from the BlackBerry, but instead to actually have you recognize that while it may work best for you, you can't say it isn't capable for another.
I asked for reasons why you thought the iPhone didn't have a place. You listed reasons. Every reason you listed can be accomplished on the iPhone all the same. In your first post, you didn't mention that you use a short cut key with your gloved hand to access voice dialing, you simply said that you just use it with that gloved hand. There is a large difference. If you find yourself using the phone with that gloved hand and you need voice dialing, than the BlackBerry certainly is the better choice for you. Just because you need that function and just because that function makes the BlackBerry a better choice for YOU, doesn't mean the iPhone isn't a viable choice for someone else.
Are you understanding this?
The iPhone is not a good business tool for MobileAdmin. He, and his company, need more control than it provides. They have a real reason not to deploy the iPhone as a communications solution. His/her reasoning is sound, grounded in real fact, and there is nothing else to it. BlackBerry is simply better for them.
What about another corporation that doesn't have the same need for security? They use a simple Exchange set up and remote wipe is all they care about? ActiveSync is good enough for them in their Outlook environment? Instead of needing that, they need the iPhone's very viewable attachments, they need the iPhone's powerful OS to provide their employees with certain levels of applications, etc. They are simply different than MobileAdmin's corporation, they simply have different needs, and while the BlackBerry solution is the best for MobileAdmin, it may not be the best for them. They may prefer the iPhone.
They are both businesses, are they not? They are both using the device as a business tool, are they not? They are simply making a choice based on need.
I referred to you and your crew as hypocrites for the fact that you are all saying that because the BlackBerry is what works best for you, the iPhone can't work better for another. You are not everyone. You have no place to say that the iPhone is a failure for all business just because it doesn't work for you. You are a hypocrite for having such a close minded view while you knock me and call me ignorant, and say that I am the one that is close minded. I referred to you and your crew's being stupid simply because of the way you all choose to ignore my point and instead revert to insulting me and calling me names.
Apparently, writing a message that is more than 2 paragraphs long to convey my thoughts is a no-no to most of you, so I am sure you won't bother to read this in its entirety. You will instead skim it, pick out another two sentences, and continue to knock me. Have at it...

I think there is a difference between capable and proven to be reliable.
While both camps are very hardcore users that are dedicated to the brand names of their respective mobile device makers, there is a difference in the reason why they are dedicated.
Apple sells a lifestyle. You will notice that the bulk of Apple ads don't really talk about specs as much as they do about how cool they are. It's a trendy lifestyle they are selling. There is nothing wrong with that, because that's the nature of my job too. But once someone buys into the lifestyle and accepts is part of their own, any criticism of it might be taken personally. It's very much like a religion, it's a lifestyle and if you criticized someone's religion, you are in essence criticizing them personally.
The reason why BlackBerry users are so hardcore is because it is now a mission critical tool. Before, it was just a neat little gadget and cool to get emails on their mobile device. After they have gotten used to it, it became necessary. To dismiss it or even suggest replacing it with a device that is not yet proven is not good enough. Like a few others have mentioned, reliability is way more important than a device that could do it almost as well. Almost as well is sacrificing something you have always had and needed. But I must admit, I have gotten quite used to being on msn anywhere I go and that in turn has definitely affected my lifestyle. My other job is photography and it's very beneficial for me when a model cancels last minute on me and I can instantly find another one who wanted to shoot with me.

Tom is so funny. Getting so worked up over the comments that he insults everyone. What an idiot.

I'm sorry to say y'all... I still think that BB takes the cake. And it's for all the reason that have been stated before. 1 hand usability, video recording with the new BB OS, COPY/PASTE (I mean, c'mon apple)...
Sure the pretty iPhone will get the people looking for something pretty, however I already have a 60gig iPod and a cell phone. There is no reason for me to spend more money (in this economy) to replace my $300 iPod and $100 BB only so that I can spend more money per month so that I can get push email with an iPhone.

Tom, I feel for you, buddy. It's never pretty to watch a gang of fanatics at work - I hope this isn't typical of the Blackberry community. When challenged, they sneer, they snarl, they spit, they goad, they taunt, they lie and exaggerate - and they hunt in packs. Not nice.

Jon, I didn't "insult" everyone, I directed my comments at a select group of people.
You're right though, I am an idiot. I'm an idiot for trying to use common sense reasoning to appeal to the better nature of a close minded group of individuals. That does make me quite the idiot.

"Jon, I didn’t “insult” everyone,..."
Oh really? Wasn't this just a few posts up the page?
"I am not going to continue this, because it is absolutely infuriating how stupid you people are……"
No, nothing insulting there. After all, "you people" is a very selective phrase isn't it?
Well I guess that shows how useful the "Cut and Paste" function can really be, huh?

It's really funny watching people spend their time in a forum arguing about which phone is better and who called who "stupid." The BlackBerry is a great phone, and so is the iPhone. So now, instead of continuing to fuel this fire, how about everybody take out whichever amazing phone you happened to buy, text your friends, and go hit up taco bell. Peace.

Tom, seriously the current iphone doesnt have push email... (period) so when you get your second gen, let me know about the reliablity in 2 years, because as previously stated you have to prove yourself in the market to me. Secondly I was at a local dive with two friends, I have a curve, one has the iphone, on has a treo. 4 bars of service, and lol, the iphone dead last... but I am sure you can come up with some arguement as all do in defense to what they prefer. I get such humor out of your responses, because you say you have an open mind, yet everyone with an opinion negative to the iphone is point blank wrong. Even if they have had an experience with it and are reflecting on it. You are the reason people get a good laugh reading posts on these forums... Please let me know when you can actually prove, by fact that the iphone push email is reliable. Until then get off your knees, Steve doesnt need the service from you, hes a billionare, he has hot 22 year olds for that. :) Tom smile its a beautiful world out here...

my company runs good, blackberry and exchange. now that the iphone will be prepped ready for exchange i cant see what would stop me from getting an iphone. although i would have like to see cool video chat or mms but then again it could come tomorrow. i never really thought about it until now but your right. whatever is wrong with the iphone software wise is only an update away. But now what will i do with all the time i save from squandering the forums?

I do have a comment for the poor reception by the way. The iPhone has a metal back. It interferes with radio signals. Early reports of the 3G iPhone are already talking about improved radio reception.
Secondly, I have a very open mind. I am the one talking about both the BlackBerry and the iPhone being very good, and the matter of which is better can only be determined by the end user.
You, and your BlackBerry cohorts, are the one that keep referring to how your BlackBerrys are better. You aren't acknowledging that they are better for you though, you are making all encompassing statements that they are better period. You can't do that because it is up to the user to determine that.
What is humorous is how yourself, adam, BBmaximus and a few others either lack the reading comprehension to understand what I am saying, or you can't fathom the concept how an individual's needs is the determining factor in what is better, so you instead choose to personally insult me.
At this point, not one of you has actually gone back to find a point where I said the iPhone is flat out better for business. Why is that? Maybe because I never said that?
Go ahead though, keep personally attacking me. It really shows the depth of your intelligence and it speaks volumes about your maturity.
One other thing. You are aware that this is "The iPhone Blog," are you not? As in, "iPhone fan site." If you hate the iPhone so much, why are you here? I am the one with problems, yet you keep visiting a site of a device you don't like just to miss my points and insult me?
Ok chief, maybe the lawn dust has started to affect your brain...

In two years, expect 3/4 of all Americans to own an because of the simplicity of the iPhone's user interface and the willingness of Apple to drop the price down lower and lower with every Update. Expect the iPhone to break through to the buisiness world through the new 2.0 software update. Expect Apple to make the same impact on the telecommunications world as it has in the world of music. Finally, Blackberry users, expect to get rid of the technology of yesterday, because in six months everyone around you will have an iPhone and you will soon desire the iPod of cellular telephones.
The sale of 45 million iPhones is IMMINENT!!!!!!!!!!

I think that Black Berries and iPhones are both great phones that are matched in their qualities.
Most of the Time people spend on their smart phones is used texting, emailing, or talking (witch is not affected at all be a keyboard). A qwerty keypad with real keys is easier to type on because you actually feel the buttons (which helps its location register in your mind). It’s no more cramped than Iphone’s touch keyboard. On Iphone you can press the wrong button more easily.
And how is the Black Berry interface “obsolete”. It provides the same functions as the iPhone's. Especially with the new OS 4.5 for current BB’s that will provide video recording and a very attractive theme. And the OS 4.6 for the 9000 will be even smoother and look better than that. Black berry can keep up seeing as it’s outsold the iphone. so what if the current browser may not be that great, the Opera mini browser is fine and the browser on the new OS 4.6 will eliminate the need for Opera mini.
Black Berries' media player alone isn’t bad and can do the same functions as an iPod (considering all media player’s have roughly the same functionality). Why is bad that RIM is adopting iTunes for the BB instead of making its own? RIM makes phones not media players and media stores. And I doubt that the iPhone will have any hardcore games, it's not DS or PSP.
In conclsion, Black Berries have equal capabilities and features as iPhones. So I don't why so many people are saying that they can't keep up when have been leading the smartphone industry.
By the way, here is a spec comparison where you can clearly see that the two phones are equally matched:http://images.crackberry.com/files/kevin/BoldvsiPhone3Gbig.png

I work for one of the largest music companies in the world. Over 10k employees, which about 3K have BlackBerrys. Even though we are a music company and sell our music through itunes, we could say no to the iPhone 1.0 because of the lack of security and integration with Exchange. But now with Exchange Activesync and the security that comes along with that in 2.0, it will be much more difficult to say no. So we are accepting the inevitable and putting the appropriate processes and controls in place to allow it in our company. Will it be for everyone? No. But for those who want it, it will be there.

Wow...what an article. The screen size is a real issue, but otherwise you are simply wrong. BB does have continuous feature improvement and the iPhone still has no task list. This is a completely ridiculous omission. The keyboard on the iPhone is a joke. My guess is the BB Thunder will finally get this right. The interface on a BB is far superior to the non-customizable clutter of the iPhone. Have other over priced Apple products to choose from under the guise of an "ecosystem" is laughable. BB has far more apps, so forget the Application Store. Finally, sure BB serve can go down, but so does everyone elses. The real problem their is Microsoft.

I considered iphone, bb curve, and Nokia E90 Communicator to replace my nokia 9300i communicator.
The iphone was loaded with softwares to suit my needs.
To me iphone is a well made phone with a lot of multimedia features. And, even if the unit was loaded with software to enhance its texting/messaging ability it is still average for business, if not mediocre.
Iphone's presentation is great, but the novelty will be gone in a few weeks, and all I need is speed, no nonsense, something pocketable with proven performance. So the choice went to blackberry.
Btw, Ive been using touchscreen since the day of Palm V, and I believe no-touch screen is still great (if not better)

For those hoping to drop Opera Mini in as a browser replacement on any platform, this should stop you cold. No secure connections. Not for your logins. Not for your banking or email. Not for nothing:
(Via Steve Gibson / GRC.com / Security Now!)
http://www.operamini.com/help/faq/#security
This is the "security" section of Opera's page explaining the "Opera Mini" browser's operation with web sites and how Opera's proxy terminates SSL connections in order to perform web page re-writing for the benefit of OperaMini users.
Whenever possible, I exclusively use SSL/HTTPS on MobileSafari on the iPhone...

Funny stuff. Tom went from informative, to combative, to submissive, to combative, to informative again. That is a palindrome of emotion there...
I came here from a link on Crackberry and must say that I am a tech geek that happens to own a Curve. My decision to purchase hinged on three factors: 1. the iPhone was too expensive for the amount of storage included; 2. The iPhone, to me seems like a two-handed device; 3. I prefer a physical keyboard.
I then considered jumping on the iPhone bus when 3G came out. I decided against when I discovered that the $200 subsidy was exceeded by the $240 increase in two year data subscription price, and the fact that MobileMe, while very cool and fresh, would cost another $99 per year. I'm on T-Mobile and only pay $20 a month for all the data I can soak up with my blisteringly mediocre EDGE network. That is enough for me; maybe not for others, but for me...
I love Apple products, but Apple seems to have too much control over every minute aspect of their wonder-device. If it were more open, without having to be jail-broke, and was cheaper, I'd be closer to beingin the club.
Maybe next time Apple.
P.S. - Copy and Paste really is a necessary thing. Apple should be ashamed for not including it.

Who in the hell cares which phone is better? It's a matter of personal preference! BB is suited for a certain audience just as the iPhone is. There's no point in arguing over which one is better.

I love my BlackBerry - in fact, I've had 6 of them (the past 6 latest models) and now, with the iPhone finally coming to Canada, I am officially making the switch.
It's a tough decision, but I'm going to do it!
I've been checking this site every single day to see what's new, and every time I see something new published, I get more excited!

I am waiting for the release of both phone and will get one. I really wanted to ge the iphone but I am now tending toward the BB Bold. Here are my reasons.
The number one feature of both is that they are phones and should take care of this first. The BB has louder volumes and a better speaker phone which is good for old guys like me who are slowly loosing hearing. Also true speaker independent voice dialing is a must. I am an MD traveling from hospital to hospital and I get paged to a ton of different hospitals while I am in my car. It is great to use bluetooth and say "call 555-5555." I cannot imagine trying to make a call on the expressway without a keyboard.
Other features swaying me toward the BB are the user replacable battery and the easy access memory card slot that will be able to recognize 128Gb if and when they become available.
I do have a phone with stereo bluetooth and a set of wireless headphones. The sound is good plus you can answer calls. The music is paused when a call comes in. These are points for the BB.
I would like the larger iphone screen since it is getting harder to read small print the older I get. however, I am worried about the durability of the glass iphone screen. I take care of my stuff but one oops and glass breaks.
My hospital is converting to electronic medical records. There is talk of allowing support for lab results through the BB but not iphone.
As I said, I would love the get the iphone and could tolerate many of the issues above except one. The deal breaker is the lack of good speaker independent voice dialing. I am looking for a 3rd party application that would work. The only one I see is one that uses voice tags.

The iPhone and the Blackberry will always be competitors--it will always be this way: iPhone comes out with a new feature, then the Blackberry will "coincidentally come up with a similar feature" or vice versa. And this is great because this means there's always backup in case Jobs' and his Cupertino team get a mind-block and are stuck.
For example: Apple was sued for "their visual-voicemail idea" when the iPhone first came out.
This will also happen with price: one company lowers the price, than the the other company has to do the same too.
Also, Apple never said how many native Apps they'd have. I mean, they demo'd a few at WWDC, but who knows how long it could take Apple to sort through thousands of native App submissions, and pick out the one's that are real.
So, I don't think we can make any assumptions until the 3G and 2.0 are out and available for everyone to try. I mean, a company can say anything they want--but you can't trust until you have proof. Like in your article: about how the price is really $40 more expensive than the first-generation iPhone: Jobs never mentioned that in his keynote!

woooowwwwww... this ongoing saga has definitely been interesting. I was simply looking for a little insight on the comparison of both phones, and clearly I got that and much, MUCH more. I own a Blackberry but I was considering the iPhone 3g. My only true concern is whether the iPhone keyboard is worth the hassle of getting used to. I mean here's the deal: I text, I keep notes on the Curve regarding errands and other things, and to sum up, the QWERTY keyboard on the Blackberry is just so darn easy to thumb on.
When I handled the iPhone in the store for the first time, I was surprised and a little bit disappointed at my "typing" on the iPhone's keyboard; my fingers didn't know whether they were supposed to thumb or solely use the index. I must have hit a wrong letter at least 3 times. And maybe this will take some getting use to, but will it?
I'm just trying to weigh out the factors. I own an iPod so I don't necessarily need those features...Tom if you are still around I would like to know what you think, or anyone else for that matter. For talk, texting, notes, and occasional web use, is the iPhone keyboard worth getting comfortable with, when my fingers are already used to the clicky-click of actual buttons? I'm not a business mogul, I am a young mom who enjoys a good piece of technology, and so far the Blackberries have been great for me (had an older BB prior to the Curve.) But Apple is such a great company that I'm sure that I will love the device--only question is the keyboard.
so really, is the iPhone keyboard truly as easy to use as the QWERTY? honestly?

The three things that Apple could have done to improve the iPhone are not really a big deal to me. My needs are not that high maintenance, so to me I can wait for the next generation to come out and hopefully all the gliches will be gone as well. Texting seems to be more for kids and I have never even tried a BlackBerry really, my husband had one for a while and I thought it was kinda kool, but I always wanted the Apple.

I've been using a Blackberry for more than five years, just waiting for something better to come along. I tried Window Mobile devices (Treo and Moto Q), was very disappointed and ran back to what was comfortable (Blackberry). I have been waiting for the iPhone 3G to come since the first announcement that it would work with ActiveSync. If it works nearly as good as I think it should, this could be the end of RIM...

I don't know if anyone will get ahead of Apple in the touchscreen-phone game. If they want to beat the iPhone, RIM just has to stick to what they know: buttons and buttons. If they can turn around their OS, then they'll ALWAYS be a competitor.

I use my phone for business; and got annoyed enough the unpredictable "message not downloaded from server" madness to google it, and find out that I'm not alone, and even though my business utilized POP3, I should trick the iphone and claim to be IMAP instead. It works. So today I have software version 2.0. I sheepishly reconfigured a POP account, and guess what? "Message not downloaded from server" right out of the gate. Apple wants to be taken seriously as a business tool, and they can't figure out something as fundamental as POP3 mail? In two updates in a row now? Did they do anything to the email client with this update? POP mail has worked flawlessly on Windows Mobile devices (and presumably crackberries) for years; what is the big hold up with Apple?

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