Linus is wrong about Macs being slower than PCs. Here's why.

Final Cut Pro on MacBook
Final Cut Pro on MacBook (Image credit: iMore)

I learn a lot from Linus Tech Tips. His opinions are often very different than my own but he's incredibly knowledgable and passionate and, whether I ultimately end up agreeing with him or not, the process forces me to evaluate, re-evaluate, and learn. And that's absolutely the case with one of his latest videos: Macs are Slower Than PCs video. And Why.

So, is that true or is that just his point of view?

Now, please keep in mind that I'm a long time MacBook Pro user and someone who generally values the trade-offs Apple makes. So, that's my bias, but I'm going to try and keep this as balanced and fair as I possibly can, and I'll trust you to shout at me in the comments if and when I get anything wrong.

Rather watch than read? Hit play on the video above!

So, the crux of Linus' video is the question: Why Macs are slower than PCs. Now, for the sake of completeness, PCs are more of a category than a product line, and technically Macs are PCs, so it's a little like saying why Ferraris aren't faster than cars. They're faster than Carolas, maybe many not Lambos, but not custom jobs with warp nacelles strapped to the sides. But, for the sake of argument, I'm going to stick to similar laptops and desktops made by similar vendors.

Now, Linus is the benchmark master here, not me, so for a general evaluation, I'm going to go with what he said in his previous video about the current generation MacBook Pro: That the new i9 MacBook Pro is close to or faster than his other i9 reference machines.

Mac-targeted title of the video aside, what Linus is really arguing here, or at least one of the major arguments he's making, is that despite the prices being pretty much the same, spec for spec, between Mac and PC, Macs often don't perform as you would expect given their specifications.

He's all hubbah hubbuh over the designs and specs but feels, and this is a totally familiar refrain, that the designs — or in his words the sex appeal – don't do justice to those sometimes very impressive specs — because thermals.

Linus shows some stress tests and says Apple's done a little bit of trickery, adjusting the voltage and fan curves so that they can hit a higher thermal threshold without throttling too far below Intel's advertised base clock.

I'll quibble with this part a little. What he calls trickery I think would far better be called management. Given the form factors involved, managing processor speeds to manage temperature just makes the kind of sense that does.

Linus points out that this management disappears under Bootcamp for Windows, and there was an early bug that prevented it from working and caused a ton of controversy on the Mac as well, but that was fixed pretty damn quick. Still, Linus asks, again, if it's all just software trickery to mask a bad design.

But here's the thing: It's part of the design. Apple's whole thing, since the beginning, has been about software, hardware, capability, and design all working together. All design is compromise, all engineering is trade-offs. A giant, thermally unmanaged battleship you can't easily or enjoyably carry around or use unplugged is also compromised. Just differently compromised.

The high order bit, and they said it on Reddit, is this: sustained speed, reduced noise, or realistic portability, pick two. But the next highest, the one that people don't talk about as much is that, in some cases, you can manage, mitigate, and even engineer the hard edges off your compromise.

Now, Linus says PC laptop manufacturers thermal throttle as well, though he says many, which I take to means not all, to a lesser degree. That makes it sound more like a Why Are PCs Slow Video, rather than anything Mac-exclusive.

Linus also points out that all of this has been exacerbated by Intel's multi-year failure to shrink their process down too 10nm, and their compensating by, once again, throwing more cores at the problem, resulting in higher temperatures that manufacturers have to try and over-prepare for.

Which, again, can totally be done, but not without other, different compromises on the aforementioned noise or portability or dependency on AC rather than battery power.

Some people might prefer those other compromises, others people decidedly not. Because here's the thing: Not all customers are the same. We all have different needs, certainly, but also different priorities and even different tastes.

Now, on the internet, we have a special name for people who have different preferences than our own — idiots.

Yeah, it's funny because it's true. If you like Macs and iPhones you just don't understand how people can deal with those ugly, incoherent Android or Windows boxes. And if you like Android or Windows, you just don't get how anyone can put up with those locked down, design-constrained iPhone and Mac boxes.

It's not like we're all speaking different languages, it's like all our brains are all wired differently. And, they are. On the internet, we just get super tribal and shorthand that down to everyone else being, you know, idiots.

Linus explains just as much when he says that, for a large enough proportion of Apple's customers, the looks and the status symbol of owning the machine are just more important than whether it's actually quick off the line.

And I get it. I totally get it and for exactly the reasons I just mentioned. Apple isn't solving for just one attribute for just one percent of the customer space. They're trying to solve for multiple attributes, to balance power with portability and quietness, in a durable and, yeah, well-designed package.

Apple is managing for thermal, sure, like other vendors. More in most cases. They've been doing it for years and so far, there's no real-world evidence to suggest it's been a problem. Not at all. But Apple's also been engineering around it by including top-of-the-line SSD and custom controllers. They're even including custom silicon like the T2 chip in more and more models, which handles security and device control, which helps with performance in several ways, from encryption speed to encode and decode.

Because, and you know it's true because it's already a cliche, it's not the specific number of the benchmark that really matters when you own the machine, it's the overall speed you experience every day while using it.

There are certainly some customers who prioritize aesthetics and want people to see Apple computers on their desks, in their bags, at their reception areas, and throughout their offices, the same way they want specific chairs and paintings and lights and whatever. But, even then, it's not like that brand value just magically appeared.

Apple's nailed that part. Hard. So hard, an entire generation of other notebooks have raced to follow Apple's designs. And that's not a knock. That's credit where it's due.

For others, it's the materials, like aluminum and glass, and their durability over time. Point being, Everyone has their own idea of overall value.

Linus goes on to say that the advent of turbo boost has quote unquote masked Apple's negligence. He says turbo boost allows Macs to feel pretty snappy in day to day use, But, he also says, they require literal water-cooling to reach peak performance in heavy workloads.

But, again, I'll quibble with his characterization. The vast majority of people don't want or need a literally water-cooled MacBook Pro. They want and need exactly the snappy feeling one in day to day use Linus mentions.

For them, Turbo boost works. It's a great way to address a wide swath of bursty workflows that benefit from exactly that kind of performance. Things like opening apps, which, in the age of SSD, is no longer IO bound. Browsing the web. Making adjustments in Lightroom, trying out filters in Photoshop, anything quick and intermittent. That might not sound important but you add all those bursts up and they equal real time, especially for pros for whom time is worth far more than money.

That's turbo boost doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

Linus also kinda asks why Apple considers it ok for their pro Macs to throttle in a way the iPhone doesn't. Why this difference in philosophy?

Again, he knows much more about this stuff than I do, but I'll do my best to fill the cricket sound with a pretty good guess: The consideration and philosophy are the same: to deliver what they think is the best product for the most customers. The only real difference is that Apple custom matches the silicon for that product on iPhone and iPad. And they don't, at least not yet, for the Mac.

Linus thinks Apple is only throwing the biggest chips in the smallest packages for what he calls, Le Marketing.

Jonathan Morrison did a pretty comprehensive set of comparisons between the 2018 i7 and i9 MacBook Pro, so I'll just give you his conclusion: The i9 is still faster.

Perhaps even more telling though is what Apple did with the 2018 MacBook Air: Launched in with only one processor option. And, of course, some people were upset by that decision too.

But, rather than Le Marketing, it could also, possibly, just maybe, be that Apple is trying to do what it thinks is best for each product line, including working around Intel's lack of process shrink as much as they can — and as we learned this week, constraints on even the chips Intel is able to ship out — including at the highest end possible. Because, as we saw back in 2016, if Apple doesn't offer those highest end options, they get castigated for that as well.

So, why is the Mac slow than the PC?

No, of course not. Despite what Linus says, what he shows, over and over again, is that it isn't. He's wrong about almost everything in the video and the one thing he's right about, that the thermals prevent maximum performance, applies to similarly designed PCs as well, which makes it decidedly not a Mac thing at all.

Now, yes, if we want to artificially constrain the conversation to maximum sustained performance, as though clock speed exists in a vacuum, that the speed benefits of the other components, of macOS and Final Cut Pro X, of everything else doesn't matter, then sure: Apple could make different design compromises to prioritize that. But it wouldn't be for free. It would cost those other compromises, including size, weight, and fan noise, compromises that might not appeal to the vast majority of Apple's customers.

No product is the sum total of one dimension or spec, and when we forget that, or assume our own preferences and use-cases should be everybody's, even most people's, and when we can't perspective take or empathize with the needs of real people in the real world, that's when both customers and audience lose out.

Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie is one of the most respected Apple analysts in the business, reaching a combined audience of over 40 million readers a month. His YouTube channel, Vector, has over 90 thousand subscribers and 14 million views and his podcasts, including Debug, have been downloaded over 20 million times. He also regularly co-hosts MacBreak Weekly for the TWiT network and co-hosted CES Live! and Talk Mobile. Based in Montreal, Rene is a former director of product marketing, web developer, and graphic designer. He's authored several books and appeared on numerous television and radio segments to discuss Apple and the technology industry. When not working, he likes to cook, grapple, and spend time with his friends and family.

  • I very rarely comment on anything...but that guy annoys the **** out of me. He thinks he knows everything (he doesn't) and his needs and desires are universal (they aren't) and that the world should work the way he says it should (it most definitely shouldn't). And a lot of people who watch him think (or pretend to think) he's right. And he's annoyed at Apple because they wouldn't fix the iMac he messed up on purpose or by being careless (I'm inclined to think he did it on purpose, for the clicks), so he'll keep posting annoying misinformation.
  • Your opinion is your opinion so nothing to say about that, but just think if you were him and your imac pro that cost a ton of money broke, what you’d do and feel? Please note he wanted to pay for the repair, not get it on warranty.
  • Maybe he shouldn't be a dipstick and take it apart when he doesn't know what he's doing? Like the OP says, he thinks he knows what he's talking about all the time and he doesn't. He's well known for ruining things, usually by dropping them. And, he's usually very bias against Apple and its products. Linus is a tinkerer, so Apple would never appeal to him. He's the .0000001% that wants to get inside them even though sometimes, as in the case of the iMac Pro, he shouldn't be touching it. 99.99% of people wouldn't be him because nobody in their right mind would spend $5,000+ for a computer and then try to take it apart. If you're paying $5,000+ for a computer, you just want to get things done, not fool around with the computer so thats a moot point.
  • Three to four people a week bring in new Mac devices to have them ripped open and upgraded at the shop I work at.,Tons of the new imac get opened before the costumers even take it home stupid thing is brand new and has a mechanical hard disk. But that is the reason your paying 5gs for a devices that the manufacturer charges double on upgrade parts and most of the time doesn't even offer the upgrade.
  • No iMac Pro has ever had a mechanical drive. You really take Macs apart? Nothing you said is remotely accurate. Nobody takes an iMac apart before delivering it to the customer. Nobody.
  • ewelch - Please read the post before respond iMacs do use HDD's and/or SSD's, iMac Pro's are strictly flash via the T2 (not a true SSD)
  • All of you, GIT out of here!
  • I think many of these spec for spec comparisons completely overlook the importance of the operating system. Personally, I don't care if I miss out on a little portion of my computer's peak performance if it means I don't have to work in Windows. MacOS is a much more enjoyable environment and integrates with my other devices and services wonderfully and consistently. The operating system is how you interact with all of the hardware. That experience I realize maybe more personal but can't be understated.
  • I couldn't agree more. While there may be loads of different laptops and desktop computers on the market, there are only 3 main operating systems, and all three operating systems have certain applications which only work with said operating systems. I've used Windows for a very long time and I always got frustrated about the way certain things work, and when I started learning how to program it became evident that there are a lot of things wrong under the hood as well. I started using a Mac for the first time properly around 5 years ago, and I fell in love with the operating system, but not only that, I found many fantastic apps which just don't have equivalents on Windows. Then there's Linux, obviously Linux has many distros but you can generally use the same Linux applications amongst them. However with Linux having relatively small usage compared to macOS and Windows, it's missing a lot of great apps. There are "Electron"-based apps which work with Linux, but these are not really apps and are more webpages that run offline and ultimately consume a huge amount of resources, not to mention the security issues involved with that. macOS also has the benefit of being Unix-based, allowing an easy transition for Linux users, a great set of command line tools, a strong foundation for the OS and even the ability to fairly easily port some Linux applications over to macOS. I love macOS, the Macs themselves not so much, however I have to buy a Mac to get macOS. I could make a Hackintosh machine, but it's difficult to upgrade macOS and there's no guarantee that newer versions of macOS are going to ever work with the current hardware configuration. Many people assume that people that buy Macs are unaware that there are "better" computers on the market, but these computers don't run macOS, which is a deal-breaker for most Mac buyers.
  • Yeah well Apple fans never liked spec for spec comparison for the obvious reason that they were paying double for half the specs of the competition. And OS experience is purely a personal opinion, many prefer MacOS and many prefer Windows OS. So this is not an argument to use to justify overpaying for worse specs.
  • He never said it justified it, and he never said it wasn't personal opinion either? I don't really like your tone here. All he simply stated was that OS preference has a much bigger importance than specs. If you're happy with Windows, then sure you can build your own machine or choose a laptop with the best specs, but if you want macOS, then you have to buy a Mac. Nobody likes the fact that you have to buy a Mac to run macOS, but what can consumers do about that?
  • I couldn’t care less about whether you like my tone or not. Well yes, you’re right, if consumers keep buying an overpriced item with inferior hardware because you like the OS, then that’s the definition of Apple having you by the balls. Can’t help you there fanboy, guess you’re stuck shelling out that money.
  • "Apple having you by the balls" doesn't mean you're a fanboy. A fanboy buys products because they just see the brand and nothing else. People are forced to buy Macs to get macOS, they're not fanboys, but they don't have a choice. I use software which is only available for the Mac, but even outside of that, I prefer macOS over Linux/Windows, and I still need a Mac for that. If you're really going to go down that road, tell me how I resolve this issue without a Hackintosh machine, as that doesn't reliably support OS updates. The resolution isn't just to "get used to Windows" or "use WINE with Linux"
  • I find it hard to believe that any Mac software doesn’t have a great Windows alternative but even If i give you that, what about millions of other Mac users that don’t use their device for anything beyond facebook , browsing and maybe Microsoft word?
  • I don't know how many Mac users there are that are just using their computer for basic tasks, in that case the majority of people I know either buy a tablet or just use their phone. For tasks more than that, you need an actual "computer", and that's where operating systems become important. I'd love for you to find worthy competitors for Sketch, Transmit, Hype, or Coda. For Coda you could possibly say Sublime Text, but it doesn't really compare in terms of UI or general usability. Not to mention the macOS Homebrew package manager, allowing you to install all kinds of Linux apps, and the fact that Mac is Unix-based in general which is a really big plus when you're a software developer.
  • No problem Danny. I found software just as good if not better than apples offerings for everything I do including creating music, videos graphics and photos.
  • Well that's great for yourself, but many other people can't, which was my point.
  • The overpaying argument is a very tired and uneducated argument. I also take from the incoherent rambling in your other responses that a data-driven and a somewhat objective argument is likely beyond your understanding. However, for others who may be willing to consider a rational point of view I provide the following analysis on price. My 2018 15” MacBook Pro was $2999. I’m pretty certain I’ve seen the same spec on sale for as low as $2799. A quality mobile workstation PC equivalent used by some of my colleagues is the Dell Precision 5530. A similarly spec’d Dell actually lists for $3350 but happens to be on sale right now for $2333. The specs don’t match exactly but are fairly close. (6-core i7, 32GB memory, 512 SSD) The Apple has the 4GB Radeon Pro 555X graphics card vs the 4GB Quadro P1000. Both are great cards. The Quadro may have the edge on performance but the Radeon is no slouch. I’ll let the video card experts debate the overall difference there. So if you take both sale prices, the difference is about $466. That’s a far cry from “paying double for half the specs”. In fact that’s paying 20% more for about the same specs. I imagine the latter doesn’t provide the same zing in an emotional PC-is-better argument. However, the latter is closer to actual reality. The argument then comes down to what am I getting for the extra 20%. This is probably the more subjective side of the discussion. For me, I preferred the aluminum unibody over the Dell’s construction. I like being able to unlock my computer with my Apple Watch. I like being able to run Final Cut and Logic. I like using Messages while I’m working. I like handing off web browsing, notes, etc... with my iPad or iPhone instantly. I like AirDrop. I like having some of the best tech support in the industry available to me. Finally, like I stated in my original observation, I just like MacOS better than Windows. For my likes and my interests, the aforementioned price difference is very justifiable. If your likes and interests don’t justify the cost difference, then go buy a Dell or a Chinese malware-laden Lenovo. Just don’t exaggerate the cost and spec difference because you can’t take the time or don’t have enough brain cells to compile a rational argument. (Insert mic drop)
  • To be fair the older MacBook Pro's cost a bit more as the dollar back then had more worth. Then looking at todays MacBook Pr's you do get a more powerful CPU (6 core i7) and storage SSD vs HDD. But you also lost serviceability & expandability and now have limited ports. For all practical sense its become a very expensive throw-away! I'm willing to pay the difference between old and new dollars and then some, if I can get these elements back as they are important to me.
  • Here we go again. 33 years later, and "Mac vs PC" wars are STILL going on. Linus Who? is just the latest kid in the longest, most boring argument since Chevy trucks vs Ford trucks. Why does anyone care about this stuff? Its just a computer (or truck). We might as well argue about G.E. microwave ovens vs Samsung microwave ovens. Are you "all in" with the Samsung kitchen appliance ecosystem? Why not? It is obviously better than fill-in-the-blank's ecosystem! Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? I could not care less what oven, truck, or computer you use. If you try to convince me that YOUR oven, truck or computer is better than mine, I will just yawn and walk away. Anyone making videos in 2019 about "PCs vs Macs" seriously needs to get a life.
  • I'm All in with maytag. The only one who made a double oven propane fired range. Ha ha ha.
  • you are pretty clearly not the target audience here. his content is mainly geared towards tech enthusiasts, just like car programs would be geared towards car enthusiasts... truck enthusiasts actually care about the small details that differ between different brands, where the average person would not. it's the same with computers.
  • Regardless of what his target audience is, why does Apple-hating need to come into it? It's because he knows a large portion of his "target audience" hates Apple, so this is just generating clickbait content to gain more views. Linus Tech Tips could be a great channel if it kept the Apple stuff out of it
  • Hypocrisy at its finest. You criticize someone for generating clickbait content when your master Rene is the king of clickbaits with countless Samsung-bashing articles on his resume and you’ve always made apology posts defending it but you get your panties in a bunch when someone else is criticizing Apple. Now you know why we never take you seriously, soldier of Koolaid.
  • TBH most sites have clickbait content, they write articles which are closely tied to SEO rankings, where the title of the article is really important to initially engage consumers, but at the end of the day you shouldn't really care about clickbait titles, focus on the content. We live in a society where first impressions are more important than anything because people are judgemental… society has many problems but that's another topic for another day. As for Samsung-bashing articles, the points that were made in these articles seemed genuine to me, but feel free to dispute that
  • I def dispute it. “Genuine” in the world of fanboyism is in the the eyes of the beholder as fans of Linus also think his points are equally genuine. He is playing the same clickbait game that Rene that you defend with your life is playing so your criticism of it is hypocritical and further evidence of your blind bias.
  • Opinions are a wonderful thing, I try to be open-minded, even though you may disagree. I've used Windows, Linux, macOS, Android, Windows Phone and iOS, as well as the older phones like Nokia and the Symbian OS, I have my good and bad things to say about all of them. There are things I like about Samsung phones, like the fingerprint sensor on the new S10, which seems to work a lot better than Touch ID did.
  • None of that changes the fact that you’re a fanboy hypocrite. You cry about articles against Apple and call them clickbait and yet defend master Rene for doing the exact same thing for Apple and find his Samsung-bashing ‘genuine’.
  • I don't really cry about anti-Apple articles, nor do I defend Rene without merit. If there's an anti-Apple article that's untrue, then sure I will mention it. And yes, generally from what I've seen, Rene's criticisms of Samsung haven't been unfounded
  • "And yes, generally from what I've seen, Rene's criticisms of Samsung haven't been unfounded"
    Such as Rene's asinine claim that since the design symmetry on Samsung phones didn't align properly they couldn't be trusted on security?
  • I don't recall him saying that, I just remember him saying that he didn't like the fact that they weren't symmetrical, which was a valid criticism.
  • Seriously.... Just use your Mac and STFU... 🤦🏾‍♂️
  • Show me on this doll where Linus touched you
  • What does sexual assault have anything to do with this article?
  • Hey Rene Ritchie I know you are a mac lover and thus think macs are the best. I get it , but in the aforementioned video linus trys to say that apple false advertises that they have better cpu to be used but actually they do keep the newer cpu in the system but we will not be able to use it fully. So linus says that performance is equal to some older gen cpu where they can reduce the cost and get max performance.
    You speaked a lot about apple trying to manage every aspect of portable machine if it is apple's motto then they could have gone to a underclocked chip of previous generation or a less power consuming chip of previous generation to get a cost effective and higher performance per dollar laptop but they didnt they want to grab as much money possible from the customer as they sell to high end customers who don't care about the money they spend but there are many more people in world who think carefully about the money they spend. I didn't meant to offend anyone here if it hurted you I am sorry.
  • Yeah, he's just wrong.
  • That's your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions right? Again, show me on this doll where Linus touched you.
  • Clearly someone who has been on the dark side of a dance party has been touched in the wrong place.
  • You are so and your DannyJJK account you use to argue on here.
  • You may want to look up the definition of that word
  • Here's my only feedback on this Mac-versus-Windows argument. I have a 2014 Mac Mini. It's set to dual boot Mojave and Windows 10. I ran some activities in both operating systems on this little computer and in all cases, Windows 10 outperforms Mojave. Windows 10 boots and quits much faster, installs faster, launches multiple profiles faster, and opens apps and navigates the web faster.
  • Shhhhhh Jeff. You are going trigger alot of people.
  • One person said Windows runs faster than macOS without any specific benchmark results, it's not really going to trigger anyone, many people prefer macOS and this one person without sufficient evidence isn't going to change their mind
  • Just did, thanks for replying. Btw. Touch id is coming back.
  • How do you know Touch ID is coming back?
  • If you travel outside of the Rene Ritchie vortex, and read other tech sites, apple is working on full screen touch ID, to either use instead of farce ID or replace it all together. It will be way better than current android offerings where you have to touch in one certain spot of the screen, it will be full screen active. So, no matter where you touch on the screen it will unlock. YAY. I will be able to move forward with apple mobile devices now. Farce ID is a big no go for me and my wife. Just way to unreliable! (which btw, apple even acknowledges, therefore a new touch ID system is being developed)
  • I read quite a few Apple related sites, I haven't heard anything about this. But like I've said, I've tried the new Samsung one out and that seems better, so if Apple can make it work regardless of the moisture on your skin then that would be great
  • Who said anything about APPLE related sites. OPEN YOUR MIND fanboy.
  • Apple related sites is usually the best place to find info about Apple, just like AndroidCentral is good for Android related news. Especially something like "Apple is working on full screen Touch ID" and I've not seen anything like that.
  • Again. Do some searching beyond the usual suspects
  • I'm all for Touch ID making a return if they make it work for all kinds of users. And I'm sure Apple will bring it back if they can achieve that.
  • L m a o
  • Wordy, poorly written article using LTT to Garner views. No substance whatsoever. Too lazy to create your own content?
  • It’s a response to a misleading video what do you expect?
  • Expansive, well written article responding to misinformation that could adversely effect consumers. Tons of substance. Too lazy to actually research this and figure it out/
  • Self stroking a bit I see?
  • Jealousy I see?
  • Jealousy of what? Lol
  • Of Rene obviously. Darkside dipshit didn't bother to write a proper response to Rene, he just thought Rene was being proud of himself. I know I've had people insult myself for being in a great position in my life, and to me, that's jealousy.
  • What a ridiculous defense mechanism. I insult you all the time and I have no clue nor care what your position in life is. Sorry to burst that “i must be great that everyone ridicules me” sad bubble. Secondly, his response was pretty reasonable, Rene basically replied by raving about his own article and Darkside called out the self-compliments.. Not sure where this jealousy thing is coming into play. You’re getting more irrational by the day
  • Rene's response was reasonable. He responded to: "Too lazy to create your own content?" To which Rene gave a good response for that type of comment.
  • Glad you agree then that jealousy comment was plain dumb and a response expected from a four year old. A good work doesn’t need to be defended by its creator, it should speak for itself. Rene coming trying to tell us his article is “well-written” is pathetic.
  • I never agreed to that, but a four year old wouldn't be able to write that anyhow. The article does speak for itself, but Rene decided to participate in the comments, and that comment warranted the response that Rene gave. If you wrote something great and then one person in the comment told you it was ****, would you not want to say something?
  • Darkside, I think he forgot to log out of his Rene account, and log into his DannyJJK account. ha ha ha!....I kid, seriously. I don't think Rene is Danny, but Danny loves him dearly!
  • I like his articles, so what?
  • No words......Just....NO....WORDS.....
  • Enough words to make a comment
  • Well written? XD
  • Just because an article has proofreading errors, doesn't mean it's not well written.
  • Usually, in the real world, people are only given credit for doing a good job on something if it IS NOT riddled with errors. No one gives a surgeon credit for doing a good job if he accidentally leaves half a dozen surgical sponges inside someone’s abdomen. No one gives a car company credit for making a well made car if they end up having to recall one of their automobiles for mechanical deficiencies. No one gives a carpenter credit for making a good chair if the thing falls apart every time someone sits in it. Call me old fashioned, I guess, but if an article is littered with grammatical and spelling errors, it isn’t well written. No matter how well researched and thought out it may be.
  • I would call you old-fashioned, with a hyphen. Yes, I don't like the proofreading errors either, but the research/thought that's gone into this article is well done, or at least it is in my opinion. If there was a checklist of things this article does well on, the only negative I would really find is the proofreading. This isn't a research paper, thesis or dissertation, nor is it a curriculum vitae, it's simply an online article. Should it be proofread? Yes. Is it awful that it isn't proofread? No. And the fact that people continue to read his articles proves that.
  • I had to Google what LTT was. When does a **** YouTube channel get its own acronym? It's Linus Tech Tips, or rather Linus Tech Lies, maybe try LTL instead.
  • Because they are NOT LIES. They are tips, facts etc. Based on what his experiences are. And it's been called "LTT" for ages. just because we don't have RVS does not mean you should be jealous Danny.
  • RVS, LTT, doesn't mean anything to me, pleask speak English. And lol, I'm not jealous of someone who spreads misinformation
  • Rene, The class of system defines which way to bend. Someone buying a MacBook Air is looking for the best lightest computer, Someone who buys the older MacBook was looking for something less than a MacBook Pro from the feature set (screen size & ports was the common element back then) Todays MacBook's is an odd duck as its more or less a MacBook Air. The MacBook Pro's where a Pro's system meeting the performance levels of the CPU with very little throttling. The retina models was the start of the decline of having solder RAM. For all practical sense its not what the Pro's needed. Todays MacBook Pro's have pushed the thinness to the point of having a failing keyboard as well as backlight cable. And we're forced to buy dongles to offset what the system should had if its going to be a true Pro's system as the needed ports have been removed. It's clear Apple's messing about with what is a MacBook and what is a MacBook Pro 'Is' has created this mess. Let's say if they had marketed the current MacBook's as the 'New' MacBook Air and then marketed the current MacBook Pro as the 'New' MacBook and then came out with a beefier MacBook Pro for the Pro market things would have been so much better! OK, so they didn't do that! All they've managed to do is knock two systems down a rung or two from the expected feature set from previous generations as their marketing group thought the sweet spots of the demand where too high. What they proved is there was a hole between the original MacBook and MacBook Pro's that was not being served, I get that! So now they have a hole at the top are they going to fill it with a working Pro's MacBook Pro? Or are they going to walk away from that market? At this point a working pro who want to stick with MacOS and the applications that run under it has little choice within the laptop space. Stick with the older systems which can be upgraded as needed or jump ship to some other system. Most don't have the desire or skills to find a laptop system to create a hackintosh. Apple needs the Pro market more so now than before! As it's the only market that can grow in the desktop & laptop space due to saturation. There is a large group that needs real performance systems not hindered, with the ports Pro's need, the Dependability, Expandability & Serviceability all front in-center. They will pay for it if they can find it. Will Apple finally get it? >> There's gold in them hills! << It's the Pro's that are clamoring for the Mac Pro desktop and a true MacBook Pro laptop.
  • let's put it this way... most people using macbook pro's... are not pros at all. they're everyday users. most pros use either a macpro, or a windows/linux based workstation system, simply due to the raw computing power available, that is not, and cannot, be present on an MBP. the portability and small size do not permit the use of the top end hardware.
  • I'm a pro! and I'm very dependent on the portability of my MacBook Pro (I also own a iMac & Mac Pro both are heavy used). As I stated I don't want a system mired in needless complexity running Linus or Windows. MacOS meets and often exceeds my needs, sadly the hardware has been dragging. True, a desktop will always beat a laptop! But its about what a portable system 'Is' Apples direction is not addressing the Pro market it once did.
  • What a crazy statement. Many pros use the MacBook Pro, there's a big benefit to having a portable machine. If some rich boy decides to buy a MacBook Pro because he has more money than sense, then that's a waste of processing power. The MacBook Pro is still primarily designed for Pros.
  • "And we're forced to buy dongles to offset what the system should had if its going to be a true Pro's system as the needed ports have been removed." What does this even mean? USB-C replaces all the old ports, dongles were a short-term problem, USB-C is much better for the consumer in the long-term. This is the problem with consumers today, they never think of the long-term benefits, they just want things to work HERE AND NOW. Nobody uses their brain anymore, and just expects instant results without any level of patience.
  • But I see you love giving Rene brains ;-)
  • Not sure what this means, but it's good to share knowledge (and more importantly, understanding)
  • NOT what he means by Brains.
  • Well thanks for clearing that up for me… /s
  • Did you figure out what he meant yet?
  • Nope, I haven't got time to work out cryptic or locale-specific comments
  • I figured being in your moms basement all day, watching vector, eating cheetos and guzzling pepsis, you would have did a search on what it means by now.
  • That's not really the kind of thing british people do
  • USB-C is a great technology! But there are a lot of devices that will never offer it as an interface. Surveyor sextents, chemical analysis, test gear and CNC Machinery which costs 10's of thousands of dollars are not going to be chucked out just because they have USB-A connections! USB-A security keys are still the more dominant and you don't dare use a hub or dongle as you've been warned of man in the middle attacks these devices could cause. Then you have the simple wired keyboards & mouse devices which are still USB-A. And no Bluetooth is not workable in some environments! Think TEMPEST security as well as equipment creating to much EMI so radio systems just don't work (any). We need onboard Ports! USB-A & Ethernet at least. I also want the older keyboard my A, E & space bar keys are now just about useless on my 2018 13" MacBook Pro, yet my much older 2012 MacBook Pro is still going strong!
  • The problem is that the more people who say "well, we still need the legacy ports for [X]", the longer those ports stay in existence. People said the same thing about other old ports, and also floppy drives and DVD drives. The Macs don't have DVD drives anymore and that's a great thing. Sure DVDs are still used by certain types of business or work, but these devices cannot be designed for every unique use case, it has to be designed for the majority to make way for modern technology. The dongles are there for if you need a specific use case, like old wired keyboards/mouse or the like.
  • Optical drives are not the same as a USB port! One is a content source or recording, the other is an input/output interface. Sometimes going cold turkey does make sense! This was a foolish move on Apples part on a portable system that real mobile pro's are so dependent on. Thats the point, there are two groups here! The ones that don't need ports and the ones that do, MacBook Pro 'minimus' and MacBook Pro 'maximus' Thats the conundrum! Two very different groups, Apple for go'ed the 'maximus' pro's. This is still a very large group of people. As I stated dongles are not workable! from a security perspective and some application keys won't work with them either.
  • Danny, you must live a sheltered life. A company is not going to throw out a 100,000 dollar piece of equipment because apple says YOU NEED USB C. The real world outside your mommy's basement is much different than that. But on the flip side, The companies that are using high buck equipment are using windows based software anyways. So, apple is really saying mac users, screw you, buy our dongles for extra money. I have yet to even see printers and such ship with USB-C.
  • Nope, Apple is really just saying use dongles until USB-C peripherals are more ubiquitous, which they pretty much are now. And no, a company isn't going to throw out 100,000 dollar piece of equipment, but some businesses still write information to discs, does that mean the Mac should have an optical drive? 🤔 📀 One of my dad's friends still uses very old accounting software, and has to store certain data on a floppy disk. Does that mean the Mac should still have a floppy drive? 🤔 💾
  • This was similar to the transition of making CD-ROM & DVD-ROM obsolete when Apple had to sell an adapter via USB-A from a MacBook to a separate CD/DVD reader. It's all about the bigger picture and the transitional steps needed to take. Most people who just want to bash Apple will simply type to their hearts content, these keyboard warriors. I've been reading your replies here, it's been refreshing. I just find those other 2 counter replies from Darkside & XperImnenT shocking yet expected.
  • The thing is, the cd-rom/dvd demise was quick. what is this now, 4 years of apple trying to sway to USB C products? and still.....USB A is still the front runner in connectivity. The bigger picture is taking much longer for apple these days on a number of fronts. Backtracking is starting as well.
  • The CD/DVD demise wasn't quick, and like USB-A slots, will probably take a very long time to die. There are still people using CD/DVDs today. People have been angry with every port/drive that Apple has removed from the Mac, this is just history repeating itself. People don't like change. The fact is, if these ports aren't removed, they will never die off, which is the same reason why Apple had to get rid of the CD drive
  • Minor quibble, Rene, but I think the car you are referring to in your analogy is a Toyota Corolla, not "Carola", but perhaps I'm not familiar with everything for sale in the Canadian market these days ….
  • It's OK...he says this was "well written"...
  • Just because an article has proofreading errors, doesn't mean it's not well written
  • It certainly does. On what planet do you think that an article, riddled with errors, is "well written"? If Rene was a student and turned this in as homework would he get an F or would the teacher tell him it was "well written"?
  • The teacher would say: "This is well written but work on your proofreading/spelling" I don't like the proofreading errors either, but the research/thought that's gone into this article is well done, or at least it is in my opinion. If there was a checklist of things this article does well on, the only negative I would really find is the proofreading. This isn't a research paper, thesis or dissertation, nor is it a curriculum vitae, it's simply an online article. Should it be proofread? Yes. Is it awful that it isn't proofread? No. And the fact that people continue to read his articles proves that.
  • I have no doubt that Rene does his research well. Despite my issues with Rene I certainly don't think he's stupid by any means. I suppose it might be more accurate to say it's a grammatically poor article
  • Linus may be wrong on the laptop side of things but he has a point with the desktop line, which really just boils down to the iMac. Apple could easily add just a bit of size to the iMac to improve the thermals to allow the machine to run longer at its top specs. Just compare the iMac Pro to the regular iMac, at the cost of the only the ram port Apple increased the cooling ability of the iMac. Imagine if they took a bit longer to work on it and added just a bit of weight/size for cooling, nobody moves this thing around once it’s set up. The real issue is currently Apple doesn’t sell a single machine that doesn’t thermal throttle at some point when you hit it hard. Apple being the only manufacturer of Macs is why this is an issue. They just can’t bring themselves to build a Mac that isn’t pretty first and up to its specs second. I love Macs but I’m also a spec junky so Apple disappoints me with their locked closed appliance computers.
  • "Linus also points out that all of this has been exacerbated by Intel's multi-year failure to shrink their process down too 10nm, and their compensating by, once again, throwing more cores at the problem, resulting in higher temperatures that manufacturers have to try and over-prepare for." Part of this is down to Intel's decisions, resulting in much higher temperatures than they should be. Whilst Apple could help by making the machines thicker, Intel do share some of the blame
  • The current MacBook Pro frame was not designed to support the hotter running chips! The i9 is a great chip but it needs the cooling the MacBook Pro lacks! I don't recommend it to anyone that needs the horsepower as the i7 is cheaper and offers the same or better performance. Apple should not have pushed the thinnest so far just because Intel implied the TDP was the same. As we now know TDP is not what you should build your system too its the BTU's that you need to shed off of the chip.
  • I agree that Apple should not have pushed making the machine so thin, but I can also understand that Intel played a part in the issue here
  • Actually, Linus makes a good point. The thing is, Apple is not delivering the best user experience possible. How say? Apple favors form over function today. It jumped the shark long ago with its obsession with thinness. A side effect of that is a loss of features and reliability. That's been proven time and time again, yet Apple continues with this nonsense. But, hey, at least it supports planned obsolescence. And as long as Apple's customers no longer demand excellence, we are not going to get it. That's just the way it works.
  • I agree, their obsession with thinness has lead to computers not being able to deliver the specs you paid for. I just watched his video and it is full of good points.
  • This isn't just to do with the thinness of the computers, but the manufacturing process of the Intel chips as well. See the comment below, it was also mentioned in the article
  • "Linus also points out that all of this has been exacerbated by Intel's multi-year failure to shrink their process down too 10nm, and their compensating by, once again, throwing more cores at the problem, resulting in higher temperatures that manufacturers have to try and over-prepare for." Intel are as much to blame as Apple in this. Yes Apple could make the MacBook thicker and prevent overheating, but Intel are also required to help out here which they aren't doing.
  • Intels guidance was flawed! Apple should have known better not to rush out with the i9 without redoing the cooling.
  • In the same instance, Apple expected Intel to produce chips without thermal issues. The blame is on them both, really.
  • Up to a point! Apple should have still taken the time to double check things. Thats the rub! They failed in the QC to catch the failure and they hit it twice! The first time was bad firmware the second was not even catching the thermal issue the i9 had from the very start.
  • I have three machines: Mac Pro 2018 edition core i7, older 2016 Asus core i7 laptop with Ubuntu 16 and windows on a desktop. Mac is slowest no question. Irritating amount of animations. Stutters the most. Worst multitasking. However the power management on the Mac is also the best by far. I feel like Apple sacrifices performance for better power management. Ubuntu has worst power management by far but is beastly fast. But I mean there is no question to me the Mac is the slowest system (I am a heavy user who really pushes these machines. If all you do is browse the internet and stream music maybe it's less noticeable)
  • You can turn off the power management, although it's nice to have on MacBooks. Not sure what "Irritating amount of animations" or "Worst multitasking" means, but the animations you can turn off, and multitasking is really just the same as on Windows, unless you're referring to Window management which would be a fair argument, although again you can get an app to fix that
  • It means that it isn't the end all greatest machine of all time as you would like to belive
  • You haven't answered anything I said in that comment…
  • Maybe he needs to throw it into the freezer ;-}
  • The i9 MacBook pro is not meant to be for people who lightly use a computer and don't push it. It's aimed at pros that need the performance. There are a TON of pros out there that need performance even in a laptop. The issue is not with all MacBook pros, the issue is stuffing an i9 in a chassis that can't cool it properly and making people pay a gazillion dollars for it only to find out it barely runs at base clock. That's the issue. It's not a a philosophy thing. It's a real measurable issue. The i9 in the MacBook pro is slower than an i7 in dells xps 15. That's an issue. We want a MacBook pro than shines with an i9 and we aren't getting it. It's more of a marketing trick than a reality right now.
  • "Linus also points out that all of this has been exacerbated by Intel's multi-year failure to shrink their process down too 10nm, and their compensating by, once again, throwing more cores at the problem, resulting in higher temperatures that manufacturers have to try and over-prepare for." Intel are as much to blame as Apple in this. Yes Apple could make the MacBook thicker and prevent overheating, but Intel are also required to help out here which they aren't doing.
  • No. Apple know that the CPU, GPU or what ever it is has a certain power profile BEFORE they put it into machine. THEY, should design the supporting hardware to accommodate.
    What a ridiculous statement.
    Remember, Apple make 'desktop class' processors of their own. They can use those if they are so good. Intel are NOT to blame for Apple shortcomings. Who cares what last years processor did at xMHZ, if the new one produces more heat watts at yGHZ then you need a bigger chassis for it. Period.
  • Is it really that ridiculous? I said that both are to blame, rather than pinning the blame fully on Intel or Apple. You can't just exclude Intel because they said "well **** it, you'll have to deal with the thermal implications" rather than dealing with the problem properly and taking their time
  • Emerald I have to agree with DannyJJK here. The issue is Intel did not give Apple the needed information/guidence to properly size the systems cooling the i9 required (as well as the i7 to a lessor degree). But Apple was foolish too! They cut the line so tight any deviation in the final CPU design/production likely ran hotter. So they tried to hide the failure with the tweaking. They should not have shipped the i9 until they addressed the physical cooling it needed (build a bigger frame to make space for the required cooling).
  • Very true! Apple dazzles with the GHz but doesn't deliver it! The current MacBook Pro i9 is a DOA system for a real Pro that needs the performance the i9 could offer! The MacBook Pro needs to meet the CPU's specs. Maybe the next one will and give us our ports back! And don't forget MagSafe! My 13" screen is cracked after being pulled to the floor!
  • While I don't think you'll get your ports back, I really hope MagSafe makes a return, primarily for the situation you've just described there, it's saved me so many times.
  • Rene, big fan of your writing but I'm not sure you caught the essence here. I think you can catch Linus' main point at 10:13 of the video when he says Apple does market (and indeed price differentiate!) based on specs, and he is simply calling out the gap between what consumers perceive buying in Macbook (CPU clock speed, 'more airflow', more MSP) and actual real-world performance. In the end, he and others are providing a valuable service for all PCs in doing this. And while his title may be clickbait, in the end I think he's saying Apple's design is no more 'magic', insofar as benchmark performance at least, as any other high-end PC manufacturer. And that's not to say that other PC manufacturers like Razer, MSI or others don't use the same words in their own marketing; they just do so without Apple's artistry and fanboys.
  • The hilarity here is that you're just as wrong as he is, you're an Apple apologist, and both of you have voices that are irritating AF!
  • Your voice is probably irritating to some people too, we can't really help how we speak.
  • What a load BS the article is
  • Are you going to provide any explanation as to why that is?
  • please provide why it's NOT?
  • I think I've already done that various times.
  • As much as I would love to disagree with Linus - I don't think he is completely wrong.
    The latest MacBook Pros ain't the best ones Apple has ever made.
    Are they fast? -Sure.
    Do they offer best performance of all MacBooks? -Also right.
    But that "thermal throtteling" thing is something really annoying, there was more afford in
    making them smaller instead of reaching full potential of the internals.
    The MacBook Pro is not designed to operate the i9 in a propper way - that's more marketing.
    I really hope Apple will redesign their thermal layout to fit this kind of CPU in near future.
  • Wow, this article sure did trigger the Apple hating lurkers. Who knew this crowd read Rene Ritchie’s articles so religiously. I certainly don’t lurk around Paul Thurrott’s Windows blog waiting for him to write something positive about Windows so I can pounce on it. So this Linus guy is fair and balanced but Rene Ritchie is just an Apple fanboy, huh? That says a lot about you haters.
  • I don't hate Apple ... I'm disappointed in Apple! I need a new system but all I hear are crickets from Apple! I've been waiting and waiting for the REAL MacBook Pro to show up. Maybe we'll see it this year I hope! The current models are so flawed - Not serviceable, not expandable (RAM or SSD), poor keyboard design, lack of performance due to poor cooling and missing needed ports!
  • Bookhound. My sentiments exactly. I use apple for my phone and tablet products right now. As well I pay for apple music every month. I am far from a hater. I don't like MacOS, or what apple has done to the entire mac lineup. Gone are the days that a apple macPRO was a uberpowerful device that had the computing chops to go with the price. see the cheesegrater PRO tower systems. They were KILLER. Now, you have half assed products that fail frequently, overheat on a whim, and are not serviceable at all. Add to the fact that the average apple user is sitting at starbucks right now, trying to write their next great screenplay and their keyboards are failing. Thats a brutal hit for apple. Now, lets take the NOTCH. Should never have been designed like that. keep a small top and bottom bezel, but much larger screen than the 8 design, put the finger print sensor in the apple, and have farce ID in the mini bezel at the top. Much more cohesive, thought out design elements true to Steve's apple philosophy. Not this hack job of a phone they have now. Look at the new one with the **** fugly hunchback of notre dame camera on the back like a gigantic goiter. Terrible design idea, terrible design execution. Jony is lost. Time for some fresh new designers and let Jony make douchy product videos elsewhere now. All his vision is now gone. Air Pods is up next, GREAT idea, **** poor execution. you look like a ****** with these in. Look like they are just normal apple headphones with the wires cut from the ends and now these white sticks hanging out of the ear. At least beats took the philosophy of the air pod and put it into their new PRO ear buds. They are awesome! At least I can get somthing useful and not brutal looking as a trade off.
  • Don't bother arguing with lkrupp. The guy is a hit-n-run poster for whom Apple can do no wrong. He typically posts something pro-Apple while insulting anyone who doesn't agree with him. His posts on Apple Insider, MacRumors among other places indicate as such clearly.
  • You're not really any better, you're on the opposite end of the scale posting Apple-hate comments everywhere. Pot, kettle.
  • DannyJJK we all know that you are Rene. You are pathetic. You destroyed imore with your Apple fanboyism and now you are trying to increase traffic by mentioning Linus and more importantly, 90% of comments are made by you to increase engagement. Cheap tactics by a failed "journalist"
  • iMore is "destroyed" but yet you're still here… 🤔
  • He should work at BGR. They are fanboys that do the same thing.
  • Not heard of BGR, and not really interested in finding out either
  • I wasn't talking about you working for BGR.
  • "sustained speed, reduced noise, or realistic portability, pick two" So, I think everything Rene said in this piece was good, and of course, my opinion is only that, one person's opinion. But.....I think the calculus for the tradeoff quoted above should be a little different for the 15" MacBook Pro than for every other clamshell laptop. Apple needs one flagship model that skews more to performance than portability. The old 17 inch model was 6.6 pounds - I think that's a pretty weight, and still very portable, but they could afford to make the 15 inch model thicker, do whatever is necessary (up to and including liquid cooling) to keep it as cool as possible, given the 6.6 pound constraint, and I think they'd make a lot of pros happy. If ya gotta have your laptop in your backpack, and be under 4 pounds, well.....they have a lot of models like that. They need one that cares less about weight, and more about sustained performance and staying cool.
  • ...especially given the paucity of desktop offerings. Pro software developers don't want all-in-one's, we want to choose our monitor setup. I personally am driving a pair of 34 inch 4K displays from my 15 inch macbook pro. An iMac would be a step down in productivity and ergonomics. But my Macbook Pro fans run full-out all the time; I'm compiling Swift code all day long. I will be buyin the new Mac Pro when it arrives, but still.....the 15 inch model just doesn't need to be a cosmetic object of desire that fits in your backpack and looks great in a coffee shop (we have 3 other mac clamshell laptops that satisfy that requirement), it just needs to be fast, powerful, and stay cool.
  • If your Mac runs at 90°C without hitting its max, then something's wrong because that'll kill it so quickly.
  • What’s a “carola”??
  • You sound butthurt
  • You sound ridiculous
  • Wow, Triggered has been floated around the past few articles here. Someone is seriously triggered in this one. And it is the one who mentioned being triggered in the first place. Funny that!
  • From what I can see, you were the first person to mention being triggered in this article
  • Ha ha. Funny how you responded. Since you are the triggered one here and mention others being triggered. Oh the irony.
  • But you were the one who mentioned people being triggered, you're basically insulting yourself here…