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	<title>Comments on: Apple: No Location-based Ads for Non Location-based Apps &#8212; Controversy de Jour?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/</link>
	<description>More of everything iPhone and iPad</description>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116847</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116847</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I totally support Apples move on this. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I have nothing against location based advertising ... if it were done right. The fact is, I rarely see any ads relevant to my location whenever an app is providing &quot;location based&quot; advertising. Most of the ads I see are, as @Brian said, &quot;Find sexy singles in your area&quot;, or an ad for a product/company that is nation or world wide and has no need for my location. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I have yet to see an ad that is actually relevant to my location. I&#039;ve never seen an ad for a local merchant, bar, restaurant, or any other local business. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;All that really ends up happening is they collect my location and push me some generic ad that could have been displayed without my location information. Using my location information to replace the text of the ad from &quot;Find singles near you&quot; to &quot;Find singles in Atlanta&quot; is not, in my opinion, a legitimate &quot;location based&quot; ad.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Until I know for sure that an app and/or an advertising company isn&#039;t using my location improperly, I&#039;d rather not give them my location if it&#039;s not going to provide me a tangible benefit. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m far from a conspiracy theorist, but the fact remains that if we do not defend out rights, we forfeit them. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;d rather not let every app/company and their mothers know exactly where I am at all times if it&#039;s not going to provide something useful in return.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally support Apples move on this. </p>

<p>I have nothing against location based advertising &#8230; if it were done right. The fact is, I rarely see any ads relevant to my location whenever an app is providing &#8220;location based&#8221; advertising. Most of the ads I see are, as @Brian said, &#8220;Find sexy singles in your area&#8221;, or an ad for a product/company that is nation or world wide and has no need for my location. </p>

<p>I have yet to see an ad that is actually relevant to my location. I&#8217;ve never seen an ad for a local merchant, bar, restaurant, or any other local business. </p>

<p>All that really ends up happening is they collect my location and push me some generic ad that could have been displayed without my location information. Using my location information to replace the text of the ad from &#8220;Find singles near you&#8221; to &#8220;Find singles in Atlanta&#8221; is not, in my opinion, a legitimate &#8220;location based&#8221; ad.</p>

<p>Until I know for sure that an app and/or an advertising company isn&#8217;t using my location improperly, I&#8217;d rather not give them my location if it&#8217;s not going to provide me a tangible benefit. </p>

<p>I&#8217;m far from a conspiracy theorist, but the fact remains that if we do not defend out rights, we forfeit them. </p>

<p>I&#8217;d rather not let every app/company and their mothers know exactly where I am at all times if it&#8217;s not going to provide something useful in return.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: DBH / Talking New Media</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116812</link>
		<dc:creator>DBH / Talking New Media</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116812</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This was one of the better posts so far on this issue. Most posts have been hysterical takes on an issue that may be more complex than they realize.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For those against location-based-advertising let me remind you how postive the feature could be and why Apple shouldn&#039;t ban it -- though they may want to limit it to legitimate uses.  Take, for example, an app for a local newspaper. They may want to use core location to make sure you are served &quot;local&quot; news (with the standard opt-in warning many apps already have). Then, they can offer a map that shows you local merchants -- complete with local ads. I see nothing objectionable about this since you want that local content and you want those local merchant ads, otherwise why download the app? &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If Apple bans this type of usage, it is a sign that they want to go into this market themselves. I think that at that point Apple could run into some trouble from the Feds who might want to take the side of the local media companies for both consumer and political reasons. Apple should be very careful here.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was one of the better posts so far on this issue. Most posts have been hysterical takes on an issue that may be more complex than they realize.</p>

<p>For those against location-based-advertising let me remind you how postive the feature could be and why Apple shouldn&#8217;t ban it &#8212; though they may want to limit it to legitimate uses.  Take, for example, an app for a local newspaper. They may want to use core location to make sure you are served &#8220;local&#8221; news (with the standard opt-in warning many apps already have). Then, they can offer a map that shows you local merchants &#8212; complete with local ads. I see nothing objectionable about this since you want that local content and you want those local merchant ads, otherwise why download the app? </p>

<p>If Apple bans this type of usage, it is a sign that they want to go into this market themselves. I think that at that point Apple could run into some trouble from the Feds who might want to take the side of the local media companies for both consumer and political reasons. Apple should be very careful here.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lady Kaede</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116766</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady Kaede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116766</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Agree with Rene. But I am curious as to how Apple will make use of Quattro to help developers of free apps get revenue; making use of location data would seem a natural component of a kit/service they may be preparing. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Don&#039;t much like the word &#039;evil&#039; being levelled at corps or people (or used in corporate mottoes for that matter) - I could say &#039;not being evil&#039; means providing utility to customers and value to shareholders; and from a corporarte POV it does. I guess if your customers are military contractors and shareholder value is tied to the lethality of your product it gets more complicated, but neither Apple nor Google are anywhere near that category.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with Rene. But I am curious as to how Apple will make use of Quattro to help developers of free apps get revenue; making use of location data would seem a natural component of a kit/service they may be preparing. </p>

<p>Don&#8217;t much like the word &#8216;evil&#8217; being levelled at corps or people (or used in corporate mottoes for that matter) &#8211; I could say &#8216;not being evil&#8217; means providing utility to customers and value to shareholders; and from a corporarte POV it does. I guess if your customers are military contractors and shareholder value is tied to the lethality of your product it gets more complicated, but neither Apple nor Google are anywhere near that category.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MrC</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116707</link>
		<dc:creator>MrC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116707</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Dev: iPhone apps cannot access GPS data without the explicit acceptance from the user. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The first time an app tries to access the GPS components the iPhone OS pops up a message asking if this is ok. If the user says no then the app does not get access to your location data. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This isn&#039;t so much about privacy as it is using the GPS unecessarily and also worrying average users that they might have downloaded a virus or similar when their app that has nothing to do with location asks to use their location. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The news from Apple does not mention any specific ad service so any similar location based ads from Quattro are presumably equally banned.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dev: iPhone apps cannot access GPS data without the explicit acceptance from the user. </p>

<p>The first time an app tries to access the GPS components the iPhone OS pops up a message asking if this is ok. If the user says no then the app does not get access to your location data. </p>

<p>This isn&#8217;t so much about privacy as it is using the GPS unecessarily and also worrying average users that they might have downloaded a virus or similar when their app that has nothing to do with location asks to use their location. </p>

<p>The news from Apple does not mention any specific ad service so any similar location based ads from Quattro are presumably equally banned.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rene Ritchie</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116706</link>
		<dc:creator>Rene Ritchie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116706</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Dev: If Apple&#039;s Quattro based ad platform comes out without this restriction, that&#039;s when it will be anti-competitive. The current wording says &lt;em&gt;primarily&lt;/em&gt;, it doesn&#039;t say &lt;em&gt;not at all&lt;/em&gt;. If Quattro&#039;s solution plays by the same rules, there&#039;s no issue, right? If it doesn&#039;t, then Apple will have a problem.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And that patent is silly. It reminds me of the hype surrounding TPM and Microsoft&#039;s old ad-based Windows patents. It&#039;s a rights claim. 99% of that stuff never gets surfaced, and if Apple really surfaced that patent in a consumer product, I&#039;m betting most of us would choose not to use that product.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There&#039;s no &quot;Force users to use our ad product&quot; patent, is there?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;All big companies can&#039;t help but be evil. Their interests generally don&#039;t coincide with customers&#039;. That said, there&#039;s just so many zany conspiracy theories we can put up with, so until there&#039;s smoke with the fire, it&#039;s just FUD.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dev: If Apple&#8217;s Quattro based ad platform comes out without this restriction, that&#8217;s when it will be anti-competitive. The current wording says <em>primarily</em>, it doesn&#8217;t say <em>not at all</em>. If Quattro&#8217;s solution plays by the same rules, there&#8217;s no issue, right? If it doesn&#8217;t, then Apple will have a problem.</p>

<p>And that patent is silly. It reminds me of the hype surrounding TPM and Microsoft&#8217;s old ad-based Windows patents. It&#8217;s a rights claim. 99% of that stuff never gets surfaced, and if Apple really surfaced that patent in a consumer product, I&#8217;m betting most of us would choose not to use that product.</p>

<p>There&#8217;s no &#8220;Force users to use our ad product&#8221; patent, is there?</p>

<p>All big companies can&#8217;t help but be evil. Their interests generally don&#8217;t coincide with customers&#8217;. That said, there&#8217;s just so many zany conspiracy theories we can put up with, so until there&#8217;s smoke with the fire, it&#8217;s just FUD.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: dev</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116700</link>
		<dc:creator>dev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116700</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Brian&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You are missing the point.  Apps that already use location sensitive information are banned from using it for advertising.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@MrC&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This does nothing to prevent apps from collecting your location data.  Nothing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@frog
This has &lt;em&gt;zero&lt;/em&gt; to do with peace of mind for users.  Apple &lt;em&gt;BOUGHT AN ENTIRE COMPANY&lt;/em&gt; whose entire purpose was to make what they forbid third parties to do.  Apple has patented locking OS features while advertisements run.  This is not to give peace of mind to users; this is to squish any competitors until Apple gets their own play into production, at which point this feature will magically be made available again -- but only if you go through the Apple network.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This is just more Apple being worse than Microsoft in their own garden.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian</p>

<p>You are missing the point.  Apps that already use location sensitive information are banned from using it for advertising.</p>

<p>@MrC</p>

<p>This does nothing to prevent apps from collecting your location data.  Nothing.</p>

<p>@frog
This has <em>zero</em> to do with peace of mind for users.  Apple <em>BOUGHT AN ENTIRE COMPANY</em> whose entire purpose was to make what they forbid third parties to do.  Apple has patented locking OS features while advertisements run.  This is not to give peace of mind to users; this is to squish any competitors until Apple gets their own play into production, at which point this feature will magically be made available again &#8212; but only if you go through the Apple network.</p>

<p>This is just more Apple being worse than Microsoft in their own garden.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116699</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116699</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with the other commenters sentiments. I think this is an excellent win for users. Obviously not so much for advertisers, but honestly how often has anybody seen a location aware ad that does anything more than say there are singles in your city that want to meet you? There is absolutely no need for location aware ads in apps that aren&#039;t already giving location sensitive information.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the other commenters sentiments. I think this is an excellent win for users. Obviously not so much for advertisers, but honestly how often has anybody seen a location aware ad that does anything more than say there are singles in your city that want to meet you? There is absolutely no need for location aware ads in apps that aren&#8217;t already giving location sensitive information.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rene Ritchie</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116698</link>
		<dc:creator>Rene Ritchie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116698</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks Alex, my Spanish is horrible...&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Alex, my Spanish is horrible&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alexander Vaughn</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116697</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Vaughn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116697</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s &quot;Du&quot; jour&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s &#8220;Du&#8221; jour</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116693</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116693</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is a huge win for users!  My free game doesn&#039;t need to know where I&#039;m at!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a huge win for users!  My free game doesn&#8217;t need to know where I&#8217;m at!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: frog</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116688</link>
		<dc:creator>frog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116688</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think it&#039;s a good move, and it&#039;s based purely on giving end users some peace of mind IMO. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well done Apple!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Google wouldn&#039;t have the balls to do this, they&#039;ll totally sell out on a users privacy to earn more ad revenue!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a good move, and it&#8217;s based purely on giving end users some peace of mind IMO. </p>

<p>Well done Apple!</p>

<p>Google wouldn&#8217;t have the balls to do this, they&#8217;ll totally sell out on a users privacy to earn more ad revenue!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dyvim</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116687</link>
		<dc:creator>Dyvim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116687</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sound reasonable to me too.  I don&#039;t want apps burning my battery up getting location information just to serve up ads for me.  Now, if I&#039;m in an app that needs to know my location (like Yelp! or GPS or something), then I&#039;m ok with that assuming it&#039;s an ad-supported (i.e. free) app.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sound reasonable to me too.  I don&#8217;t want apps burning my battery up getting location information just to serve up ads for me.  Now, if I&#8217;m in an app that needs to know my location (like Yelp! or GPS or something), then I&#8217;m ok with that assuming it&#8217;s an ad-supported (i.e. free) app.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MrC</title>
		<link>http://www.imore.com/2010/02/05/apple-locationbased-ads-locationbased-apps-controversy-de-jour/comment-page-1/#comment-116685</link>
		<dc:creator>MrC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theiphoneblog.com/?p=20718#comment-116685</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sounds quite reasonable to me. Apps that have nothing to do with my physical location shouldn&#039;t be using my iPhone&#039;s GPS period. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I imagine it has been leading to support calls when a random ad-supported app asked an iPhone user if it can use their current location. I know it confused me the first time I saw that and the app had nothing to do with location based services.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds quite reasonable to me. Apps that have nothing to do with my physical location shouldn&#8217;t be using my iPhone&#8217;s GPS period. </p>

<p>I imagine it has been leading to support calls when a random ad-supported app asked an iPhone user if it can use their current location. I know it confused me the first time I saw that and the app had nothing to do with location based services.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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