Apple Was Going to Use Palm WebOS-style Widgets for iPhone in 2007, Abandoned Idea Due to Performance
As part of the commentary on Jamie Zawinski leaving the Palm Pre for the iPhone (linked in the previous post), Daring Fireball adds:
Apple had a similar idea to WebOS for the iPhone, where certain apps would run as Dashboard-style widgets, written in HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Apple abandoned the idea in the six months between the iPhone’s January 2007 announcement and when it went on sale at the end of June, concluding that performance for such apps was unacceptable and that they should go native Cocoa across the board. And Apple was only going to do it for small apps, like Weather, Stocks, and Calculator, not the flagship apps like Calendar and Mail.
Of course, web technologies have improved since 2007, especially JavaScript rendering. Usability and performance complaints aside, Palm embracing web developers in order to incentivize adoption of their platform was a smart strategy. Still, it’s interesting to see Apple’s reaction to it back then, and their decision to go 100% native. (Especially considering they’re now being criticized for not having widgets).
Did Apple make the right choice, do we still want widgets on the iPhone, or is HTML5 and SQLite in Safari making them redundant?
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Hmmm. It depends on how it’s integrated, how it looks, how it feels, and how it performs. But I like the card system of the Pre. But not the actual widget feel. If I want a widget, I’ll go to dashboard. If I want a real app that works like a widget, I’ll get a Pre. If I want an app, I’ll stick to my iPhone.
You know what I am saying?
I would like to see some widget implementation. The hardware is to the point now where widgeting is certainly attainable without a performance hit. I like the Sense UI philosophy where your home area consists of icons for oft-used apps as well as widgets which give you quick and live updated information like weather and twitter. As the iPhone is now, you are simply dumped onto many pages of icons. I want basic information without having to launch an app!!
No. I would of wanted the dashboard
I still don’t see the appeal of multitasking on a phone. Even on a pre you can only have one widget open at one time. You still have to swipe to another one. It’s just as easy to simply open up a new application, plus they open so quickly on a 3gs that multitasking is irrelevant. I can copy and paste between applications that’s all I need.
Although admittedly I would like to have the ability to run a chat application in the background. So I wish Apple would get on an iChat for iPhone and set up some kind of push notification/instant on kind of thing so I can check something in safari and still get messages Nimbuzz is supposed to do that but its implementation is terrible.
Well, there is no clear definition of what a widget is, so the argument should really be defined in terms of doing everything in a browser engine (like webos) or a desktop OS (like iphone).
What Apple did made sense then.
All the rendering components have improved a lot, not just JavaScript as Rene mentioned, but also the video chips, and the processors itself (in the 3GS).
There are only now appearing pure widget engines that are not browser or javascript dependent starting to appear in some platforms. (Principally KDE4). None of these are mature enough or small enough for the iPhone’s tiny memory footprint.
So the only viable widget engine is still browser based javascript.
But at the time Apple was doing this, the horsepower simply wasn’t there. The advancements in the jave/javascript interpreters, processor speed, and memory, make the Pre’s Webos possible.
And if the code base could be inspected, I think you would find that there is a lot more browser based stuff in the iPhone than you suspect. I think the App store, the iTunes app, the Maps app are all thin wrappers around Safari. Remember when web-apps were going to be the big thing?
I noticed what is on the pic the day i first saw the palm pre
The 3GS is perfectly fitted for widgets.
The type of widgets I’d like to see on the iPhone are Android type widgets. If the Hero can pull it off, I know the 3GS can…even the 3G should be able to.
Apple has no reason why they can not or should not put this into the 4th iPhone.
Victor was right iChat for iPhone that should be the next big thing
to Victor. the pre can have multiple cards open at a time. i’ve seen a video on youtube with a guy that opened 17. just fyi
Widget is a marketing term
give me results
I don’t have any desire for widgets. I can multitask and use background processed just fine with my jailbroken 3G. It works fine but I rarely do so because push notifications resolve about any need that multitasking would otherwise fulfil.
@Victor. Try Beejive IM. I was hesitant to pay for an IM app at first but Beejive is well worth it. The interface is intuitive, it loads and operates quickly, and the push notifications work very well. Beejive is well worth the asking price. It’s better than IM and all the free IM clients available. And if you jailbreak your phone, there are apps that allow you to respond to text messages without leaving your current app or unlocking your phone.
Wow! This would have been crazy!
A widget dashboard with integration with over apps would be nice. How? No idea? Maybe a way to innovate the locks screen?
I hate the term “widget”, they are freaking applications that are always running and display one piece of information; time, weather, system resources, active calender, etc. They are small and light so people had to come up with some fancy name for them since they don’t fit the mold of a full application like Firefox or iTunes. On a mobile phone these types of applications do 2 things; murder the battery and drag the whole thing down a crawl.
I’m fine with the way things are. Getting push notifications works great for me.
@Keith- There is no way in hell I’m paying $16 for a chat application. I use textfree to text so that text feature you speak of would be lost on me. I use nimbuzz and it works fairly well… just not great for push notifications. but thats fine kuz i don’t chat on aim on my phone much anyway. thats what textfree is for because the push notifications work very well on that. or ill just call somebody.
Widgets on iPhones wouldn’t hurt. With new stronger proccessors and propperly developed widgets it would be a welcome on my iPhone. But I’m not looking for a copy of the palm pre OS on the iPhone. What I was thinking was I wouldn’t mind if apple developed a nicer OS for those paying customers. But why stop with widgets. Why don’t we improve on certain perks. Like the jailbreak community did. Add the save option on safari and emails. Increase video play back support wmv, avi would be nice. Make this phone landscape in any part of the phone UI. Can we please please give the phone a better social friendly UI.
I think whatever can provide a more robust platform for developers is what makes the most sense for end users. The idea that widgets are inherently bigger battery killers than native apps is without merit. The weather and stock apps look and work pretty much like widgets, yet they do not murder the battery life.
I desire Widgets on the iPhone for exactly one reason: being able to quickly toggle settings. HTC did this right in their Sense-UI. There’s no reason I should have to dig through several menu screens to toggle Wifi, for example.
Palm Pre is better and is the greatest phone every. Even without widgets. Who ever needed widgets.
I want some of what Jimmy You is smoking!
I know this might sound like a stupid ? But what are widgets. I truly don’t know???
Well heck it took Apple over two years to figure out copy and paste and they still haven’t figured out how to sync tasks and notes for Outlook, so color me unsuprised that they couldn’t figure out “widgets.”
@Mo
and your point? did the video last 30mins? cause that’s how long the battery will last with 17 apps running lol
Actually the battery on my winmo lasts all day even with multitasking. And if I want to stream some tv at the end of the day I can swap in another fully charged battery in about 2 seconds.
Why would someone ever use a boring iPhone.
Jimmy’s new in town. Jimmy doesn’t really know anyone.
Why does every freakin blog comments chain have to turn into insults about which device is better… for crying out loud folks, obviously we all have our own preferences and there’s users of both the iPhone and the Pre.
The question posed is whether Apple made a smart decision about the framework of their device. I agree with those making the point of “what is a widget?” A mini-app? A single-purpose web page? Does it really matter? It sounds like most everyone is in agreement that it would be nice on ALL mobile devices for the user to have the OPTION to run a few apps/pages/widgets simultaneously and to have some info be more readily available on the “desktop” or all the time. Maybe the answer is a scroller, maybe home screen customization, maybe a segmented desktop or a multi-function app… whatever the best solution, I’m sure we’ll all have our own opinions and preferences.
Before knocking the iPhone too much… let’s all acknowledge what mobile reality would probably look like today without it… pretty drab, probably not much different than what it looked like before the iPhone. If you don’t believe me, then why are all the competing smart phones now looking like and acting like the iPhone? It’s obvious no one, not even Palm was thinking out of the box. Whether or not Apple continues to lead, we’ll see. That’s not what is important.
What I think we should all appreciate now… iPhone owners & those that prefer something else… is that Apple absolutely disrupted the industry and awoken all players. What I think we can depend on is the new competition keeping things fresh for at least a few years. In one implementation or another, we’ll get widgets… probably even on the iPhone, though the probably won’t be called widgets.
Finally, to those complaining about the time it took for copy-paste on the iPhone or more stability on Pre or better battery life on WinMo, etc., my guess is you’re not developers, because if you were, you’d have a better appreciation for the time, expense, complexity, developer support and numerous other factors that have to be considered by Apple, Palm, RIM, Microsoft, and the others before just slapping in EVERY feature that all users want and as quickly as they want it. If you want all the features rushed, you’ll get plenty of other messy crap to gripe about.
I agree fastlane, he obviously doesn’t know this device is so capable of doing so much stuff when is jailbroken …
Hello all…great website btw. Signed up today! Had to throw my two apples in….lol
bravo to jimEjr! Said exactly what I was thinking while reading thru these posts. We all have gotten to the point, and rather quickly I point out, of taking ALL the iPhones amazing features, robust intuitive user platform, out of the box thinking, sleek packaging, ect… Completely for granted. This is the new gold standard, and already we have moved on to the next complaint… Could any one of us really say 5 years ago that we could imagine something as slick as an iPhone being in our pockets? Or that we would take it for granted so quickly? I would like to voice my secret conspiracy theory now. I think apple is in contact with and has access to alien technology! LOL but actually that’s how far advanced the iPhone was, is now and will probably continue to be in the near future. It does everything well. of course there are drawbacks and complaints, but the fact that we can complain about features on this type of tech. Shows us just how far this has pushed us into the future! I can’t imagine having to do without the few little dissapointments on my iPhone everyday. Question: what would we have to fall back onto if every iPhone dissapeared today? Not preaching here, debate is wonderfull.
Personally, I would rather keep the speed and battery life (I use my iPod touch all day mobile) apple had in mind by limiting to single apps open @ a time. Until batt life and processor speed improve, I think apple has a wonderfull way of finding the perfect balance. Question: this is something they could address in an iTunes available update for the iPhone yes? Like 3.1.3? Complete redesign of the iPhone GUI? They did this before with copy/cut/paste and push right? I think the hardware is robust enough to go quite a few more steps forward without a complete redesign. Any one agree? Apple still limits (clockdown) the processor speed yes? I wonder how much more they could still open up the tap… They kept the Bluetooth on the touch a secret for quite a while (in Internet years lol) anything else to unveil about the iPhone platform? But hands down this is the single greatest peice of technology ihave ever held.
I’m bored of th iPhone ui… We need widgets asap or i’m going to have to go Droid on my next phone. After a few years with the same interface it’s now boring!!!
People are sick of iPhone themes that is the reason which force them to go for Palm dreo theme, there are lots of other themes for iPhone but i guess its time to switch on Android and have lot of expectations from Moto droid