After the debacle of CVS and Rite Aid turning off NFC in their payment terminals inside stores and thus shutting out Apple Pay on iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus customers from mobile payments, Apple had gone on record to issue a response, stating that so far customers and merchants who support Apple Pay are happy with the service.
CVS, which is a member of another mobile payment consortium called CurrentC, said:
At this time CVS/pharmacy cannot accept Apple Pay or other mobile payments that use NFC technology. We are in the process of evaluating mobile payment options for our customers.
In a statement to Business Insider, Apple said:
The feedback we are getting from customers and retailers about Apple Pay is overwhelmingly positive and enthusiastic. We are working to get as many merchants as possible to support this convenient, secure and private payment option for consumers. Many retailers have already seen the benefits and are delighting their customers at over 220,000 locations.
Apple's statement is similar to what it had said when it gave an update to Apple Pay's status at the iPad launch keynote recently.
Another large retailer, WalMart, which does not support NFC or Apple Pay at this time, is also part of the competing CurrentC consortium as Rite Aid and CVS, offered the following explanation:
There are certainly a lot of compelling technologies being developed, which is great for the mobile-commerce industry as a whole. Ultimately, what matters is that consumers have a payment option that is widely accepted, secure and developed with their best interests in mind. MCX member merchants already collectively serve a majority of Americans every day. MCX's members believe merchants are in the best position to provide a mobile solution because of their deep insights into their customers' shopping and buying experiences.
Have you used Apple Pay? What are your impressions with Apple's service and implementation?
Reader comments
Apple responds to Apple Pay being shut out from CVS, Rite Aid
Walmart has a ton of savings at stake if CurrentC doesn't take off. The CC cards take 2 -4% of their sales. I know people don't think that amounts to much but look at it this way. Walmart probably has a %5 margin if that. So make that margin go up to say %8. That's like a %60 increase in profits on CC purchases (which I'm assuming accounts for most of their purchases). I've never meet someone who didn't want a %60 raise. So I can understand their over aggressive attacks at NFC. I just don't think this strategy will work in the end. But they are going to fight this one really hard unfortunately. But the banks will fight just as hard as MCX because it would be a massive hit on their profits.
Apple Pay would be a major win for me if it ever makes it way to restaurants... I really like the idea of being able to pay from my phone while I'm sitting at the table. I have stories...
This feature, I believe, is available through OpenTable app.
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I love stories!
I have yet to try it out on my iPhone 6 because I don't usually shop at any of the stores that take it. I am looking forward to it though and I'm sure from what I've read that I will be very happy with it. I won't go so far as to say that I will boycott MCX stores; other than Best Buy, I don't shop at those places often either. In the end, I could see myself more readily going to a store that offers ApplePay, but at the same time I'm not going across town for a gallon of milk just to use it. If the service is all about convenience, so is the proximity of the store to my house. I don't drive 30 miles to save $0.20 per gallon on gas either because whatever money you "save" was spent driving there and back. To me, it's the same principle.
I like Walgreens better than CVS or RiteAid anyway so just one more reason to skip the uncooperative. I want d to try Apple pay at Panera last week, but only 2/3 of the ordering stations took it and I was in the wrong line.
I don't shop at Walmart, ever, under any circumstance, so that doesn't affect me. And after this, the one or two times a year I go to CVS will now be zero times. I like this more secure option of spending my money. NFC has been "the way" in other parts of the world for a while now. Hopefully the US can get on the bandwagon. We're way behind on the RFID thing already. Our banks and institutions don't give a damn about our security and safety. They've proven it time and time again. Their panic about this particular product is just one more way they're showing it.
I have used Apple pay once so far and it was at CVS. I thought it was great and look forward to using it more. The manager/cashier was impressed and kept asking me about it
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I can see this skirmish bringing Google and Apple together to fight for the consumers right to pay their way. If Google and Apple really wanted to stick it to MCX all they would need to do is deny the CurrentC apps availability in their App Stores. This would ultimately squash CurrentC in its tracks. I know that is not really the perfect solution but is MCX really playing fair either. An exclusivity agreement that prevents merchants from accepting any other non traditional payment is exactly the same thing as denying the CurrentC app. An eye for an eye. I don't think MXC is being very smart in making an enemy of the two companies that basically own 98% of the U.S. Mobile market and can basically make their payment method disappear. If the merchants were smart they would be working with Apple and Google to help make the consumers shopping experience more pleasant by utilizing iBeacons and NFC to help the consumer move around their retail space and scan purchases at the cart. I can't wait for the day when we all have to wait in an already ridiculously long line at Walmart while a customer is fumbling through their smart phone trying to open the CurrentC app so they can make a payment, that's going to be a lovely experience.
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I love apple pay and can't wait to see more and more online businesses adapt it.
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Cash is king....can't track my purchases with it.
I believe if you research, the majority of hacks to get credit card information, is at physical stores point of sales compared to online shopping. The more secure they can make it the better. I rather use a virtual credit card than my regular one. It is simple, and just makes sense. Nothing is totally perfect, but these pay systems are the future, and best get on board now. I recall when a tech told me Bluetooth will never catch on. A music tech told me mp3's are a passing fad. Remember the App Store, and many did not think it would last.
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What a load of BS from Walmart.
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Apple pay takes the merchant out of the loop, they can not track you. Also Current C will take money out of your bank account directly. And with the recent reports of box stores computer systems being hacked and hackers getting customers information, I will never use Current C. CVS RiteAid Walmart don't care about its customers, they care about customers money.
I used Apple Pay at Office Depot last Friday and at SubWay today. It was fantastic. So quick and easy. I love the way it works and hope to be using it more and more. If the merchant offers this service I'll be using it. It's great.
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"Have you used Apple Pay?"
Yes. It works perfectly.
I actively seek out restaurants and retailers who support it.
In other words, goodbye CVS, hello Walgreens.
Used it once. Honestly, just as easy and fast to pay with cash or my debit card.
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But it can't be lost or skimmed.
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Actually, you're not being honest. Are you?
Come on, you can admit it.
Wtf are you talking about? These forums sure have some effing weirdos.
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Just as fast as using a card, yes. Just as fast as using cash.... who do you think you are kidding? But really, no one uses Apple Pay for the speed. It's about the convenience, security and reducing the bulk in your pockets.
If you have a competent cashier, cash is definitely faster. I use cash more often than not, and the times I use my card, I have to go through all the steps of PIN, it checking, the cashier sometimes has to press something on their end. With cash, here ya go, here's your change, have a nice day.
Plus, you don't have to spend the time asking if they accept Apple Pay, which so far has resulted in mostly blank stares or that "quizzical dog" look.
No need to ask if they accept Apple Pay. They normally don't know anyways. The easiest way is to just hold your phone near the scanner. In the future it should become very common for people to accept NFC payments. Apple Pay is nothing more than a standard NFC payment. It's just another way to transfer a card number to the machine.... it's a replacement for the mag reader. Nothing more. You can hold the phone up to an NFC reader with your finger held to Touch ID several times just as you could swipe your card several times. People are other thinking NFC transactions.
Well...the hell with CVS & Rite Aid! They're not going to force me to use their own payment crap!
I've used Apple Pay, and liked it. I think people are overestimating the amount of privacy they will have, however. Any loyalty card, plus the device account # (which they will get) is more than enough for them to build a database on you. Apple Pay does give you an option to be more private, which is good, but practically speaking I think most people will forego it.
As for CurrentC, I don't even necessarily have a problem with a company mining my purchase habits at their store - I do have several of those loyalty cards, after all.
But it will be a cold day in hell before I give Walmart (ok, a consortium mainly backed by Walmart) direct access to my checking account.
Security is not the only reason to be leery of MCX; everyday issues will be broken by design, too. Think of fraud or disputed charges - AMEX has my back there, and will investiate fraud and fight the merchant, if need be. Who is on my side with an MCX transaction? The payment processor is beholden to the merchant, not to me. It seems unlikely they will show the slightest interest in my interests in that case. Unless and until they outline my rights there, I have to presume they are content to leave me high and dry.
No thanks.
You've never ran your debit card at Walmart... Target or The Home Depot? They have your indirect account number (not the actual checking account number, but a number that links to that account)
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Nope - I use credit over debit wherever possible, though admittedly more because I need the airline miles from my credit card, not because of any anti-debit-card dogma.
Not my debit card. I use a credit card and get cash back!
"As for CurrentC, I don't even necessarily have a problem with a company mining my purchase habits at their store - I do have several of those loyalty cards, after all."
You *do* realize that "loyalty cards" are an attempt to lock-in customers.
And track their purchases. For more effective ad-spamming.
Don't you?
Er...no. Holding a Starbucks loyalty card does not "lock me in" to Starbucks, or make it more difficult for me to go to Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf. Not everything works like a software platform.
As for tracking purchases, instead of sniping you may wish to re-read for comprehension the first sentence you quoted -- "I don't necessarily have a problem." Of course loyalty cards are about tracking, and always have been. Knowing that, I can decide if a given store's inducements are enough for me to hand over that information. A free coffee every 10 purchases in exchange for knowing what types of caffeine I buy? Sure. Nebulous points towards a purchase I may or may not make in exchange for the details of the hardware I buy? Probably not.
Unless you have dedicated your life to living off the grid and spending only cash, you make the same value judgments yourself every day, despite your determination to paint this as some sort of Manichean, white-hat-vs-black-hat standoff. (You do realize that credit card companies use your information to target ads. -- http://adage.com/article/dataworks/mastercard-amex-feed-data-marketers/2... and http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204002304576627030651339352 . Don't you? For second article, as of 2001 publish date the headlined plan is "evolving" -- but read to the end to see plans already in effect as of that date.)
If keeping your caffeine habits private is worth more to you than a weekly free latte, great -- that is your choice to make, and I am happy you get to make it. Allow others the same courtesy.
I was under the impression the device account number was basically used as a seed to generate a random one use card number. If I am correct then the merchant would never see the device account number.
The store gets the device account number - it is how they handle returns, according to Apple
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6534
That's good to know. Thanks for pointing that out. At least it's anonymous, but it still gives them a way to track you.
"At this time CVS/pharmacy cannot accept Apple Pay or other mobile payments that use NFC technology. We are in the process of moving over to CurrentC."
FTFY
"There are certainly a lot of compelling technologies being developed, which is great for the mobile-commerce industry as a whole." - not really. The consumer just ends up confused and frustrated and in the end just does things the way it's always worked (using the plastic card). Another great idea killed by greed (much the way DRM hampers the video industry).
Good comparison. Look at how many proprietary media sources/formats there are now. Insane. The worst offender is Apple - you can watch Netflix, etc on just about any internet-connected device, but you can only watch iTunes Store purchases on Apple devices.
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The difference here is that aPay is essentially just an already existing form of NFC payment.
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Bitter much?
It sure sounds like you are, yes.
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Apple doesn't insist on DRM; the movie studios do.
Here is the issue: Apple pay comes with the iPhone 6/6+ and I'm certain all future iPhones. Google Wallet comes on most Android phones. My experience in supporting 100's of IOS/Android users is most will just use the apps that come with the device other than the essentials like Facebook and Twitter and maybe their banking app and a news app or two. The folks here on iMore are probably more tech saavy, but the average user would not go an download another app just to use at say CVS. I wouldn't want to have to figure out which app works in what stores. So already CVS and the others have lost just by trying to devote time and money to develop something most folks aren't going to download and use anyways. If I was a major stock holder in these companies, I would be having them take a second look at their business direction because they are wasting lots of development money for little return.
If I was a competitor to CVS, at this point I would be advertising the heck out of the fact that I accepted Apple Pay and Google Wallet and any other standard NFC based technologies that come built in to the OS of the devices. In fact I would go so far as to use the privacy aspect against them considering the current climate thanks to Snowden (CurrentC can track your purchases). It's the perfect opportunity to steal away customers using existing technology! A win for the competitors.
One of the reasons I went to CVS (there are no less than 5 drug stores in my neighborhood) was to be able to use Google Wallet like I have for the past 2 years. Now I cannot use that even since they shut it off. I'm moving on to another store that does offer me the convenience of standards based NFC payments (which is also built into a lot of credit cards). Sorry CVS, time for us to part.
No, I haven't had the opportunity to try Apple Pay, as, I cannot put my cards in.
...This is so stupid, same as saying: "we take VISA, but not MasterCard, sorry." ...which did happen years ago, BTW, for all you youngsters. Merchants take pretty much any card today, but, this was not always the case. Now we have a new stupid battle.
Take my money the way I, THE CONSUMER want you to. Period. Don't make me pay your way, you will lose.
We need them to go forward with everything and anything that is secure (such as Apple Pay/NFC) and get us away from ancient, very NON-secure, mag stripe cards!!! Now, not later.
My CU just swapped my MC's for Visa. So much for my Sam's club membership. (I can still use my Visa debit card, I can't run it as credit, but my actual CC can't be used there)
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I use Apple Pay every day at Walgreens and at the vending machine. I also go to Meijer and use it there too. I think these merchants have my interests at heart especially since they are allowing me to pay how I want, not how they want me to pay. MCX will go the way of ISIS and Google Wallet.
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Google wallet is accepted all over the place. Just because Apple may say differently, doesn't make it true. You wanna believe your Messiah, feel free, but don't bleat the same crap.
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Google wallet is not as secure as Apple Pay. My credit card number is in Google's system, and Google charges it indirectly when you use GWallet. So not only is my credit card number vulnerable to theft, I don't even get rewards calculated correctly if I use it at gas stations or whatever category my Chase card uses that month. Apple Pay, on the other hand, only sees my credit card number once, then assigns me a secure device account number that only works in conjunction with the secure element in my iPhone. Apple does not store either number in the cloud but rather within the secure element in the phone itself, and the transaction isn't processed by Apple but rather by my bank, thus eliminating one step, never revealing my name or credit card number to anyone. This is why Apple Pay is good and Google Wallet is only a bandaid service, not to mention with Apple I just tap and done, so quick, rather than open the app and input a pin (the Google and Softcard approach).
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Google's approach is much easier to get off the ground. It doesn't require any cooperation from the banks. Apple could have gone this route too and just run everything through your iTunes account. Apple instead did it the right way and went the extra mile for a more secure system. But the good thing is Google has some competition now so most likely they will end up taking this same route at some point in the future. Lucky for Google, banks will probably be more receptive to the idea now that Apple showed it can work. Also lucky for Google, Apple just made NFC more appealing to merchants. Now if CurrentC would just compete fairly. I'm really amazed they think they can come out on top. All Apple and Google need to do is remove the CurrentC app from their stores. It's comical to read the reviews for the CurrentC app in both the AppStore and Play store. What a stupid business move that was for CurrentC.
Yeah, I would NOT say Google Wallet is gone. I only personally know one person that uses it, to be fair, I personally know zero people who have used aPay.
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This isn't an ApplePay only war. GoogleWallet users are under fire as well. GoogleWallet has had a very low adoption rate due to Googles lack of advertising the service. ApplePay coming to market brought a national spotlight to the Mobile Wallets market, as Apple can only do, which has helped to increase GoogleWallet adoption rates. The war is with MCX, who is afraid that if their partnered merchants allow a payment system that affects data collections before they can release CurrentC then those consumers will not adopt their inferior system to begin with. Quite simply this is a case of, if they try the good stuff first they may never want to try the inferior product and we will lose millions. This is a Google/Apple fight and we will at some point need to stand together for our voices to be heard.
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+1!
This is definitely a fight that Apple and Google need to team up on. In order to aid adoption of aPay/GWallet, they could even go so far as to remove MCX retailers' apps from their app stores if they want to play hardball.
Personally I hope they all lose money for this decision. Not because of applePay or GoogleWallet but because they are not giving us the choice. It would be nice for them to offer us a chance to pay with both NFC and CurrentC if we want. Why do this think we couldn't download the CurrentC app AND use ApplePay at the same time?
Only used ApplePay once so far at whole foods and I must say it was a cool experience. Can't say I'll change my where I shop because of this but I never really shop at CVS or Rite aid anyway. I definitely won't use this currenc crap though.
I am glad that there are other payment system out there. I use apple products but i don't want to be tied to apple too much. It's convinient to those who chose apple pay but there are millions more who don't have an iphone or who cares about paying electonically plus it's another way for apple to make money.
Totally agree that's why they could leave the choice to sue one or the other or both. Many people with iPhones would use say applepay for food and currentc for clothes and electronics. What people don't like is they are taking the option to use NFC payments away basically saying use what we have or don't use anything at all.
Apple Doesn't really make money off Apple Pay. The money they do make is from the banks supporting Apple Pay..
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What are you talking about? If you do not want to use Apple Pay, no one is forcing you to do so. You do not have an iPhone you can use any other payment system out there.
CVS and Rite Aid, on the other hand, are forcing you to use their payment system which goes exactly against your cry for choice.
Sometimes you Apple envying folks are so wrapped up in your envy you lose all common sense.
And yes, I know you have Apple envy, it is obvious from your statement, "plus it's another way for apple to make money". Really, you are upset that a business is in the business of making money? Childish.
I don't go to CVS or rite aid, so they aren't forcing me to do anything.
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Childesh? You sound butt hurt that i critizized apple. It's controll their after and if you blindly follow then good for you. I want choices in my life.
ADDING aPay isn't taking away choice. Intentionally disabling all NFC is REMOVING choice. Just bc Apple has created this option for a small percentage of people (for now) doesn't mean YOU have less of a choice, if anything you will ultimately gain more options bc of the media/social buzz/awareness aPay has created. (Your phone wouldn't be what it is today if Apple didn't help make SmartPhones as popular as they are.)
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PS- You might want to update your spellchecker.
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EBU916, how is banning Google Wallet and Apple Pay and replacing it with their own system that doesn't even accept credit cards considered to be giving you choices? I agree with jbestman, your logic is severely clouded.
Yep, childish and uniformed is what you sound like. Apple isn't out for control of you and they never have been. Apple's only need of control is that of their own destiny by relying as little as possible on outside sources to create their products. Anyone who can't see that is plain ignorant because all companies do the same in some form or fashion. Your criticism of Apple is unwarranted with no facts to stand on. They added NFC to the iPhone with the added security of Touch ID and called it Apple Pay. And by the way because of Touch ID it's also more secure than Google Wallet and any other form of NFC payments to date. Now we all have the choice to use NFC regardless of what mobile OS we have on our smartphone.
Retailers on the other hand are now suddenly turning off NFC payments all together at the point of checkout because the don't want to pay Credit Card companies and banks for every transaction via NFC which makes no sense at all because they pay anyway even without NFC. Then they want to create an unsecured mobile payment system that's tied directly to the consumers' bank account which uses QR codes to complete purchasing transactions leaving the consumer little recourse if any if their account is compromised. You say you want choices in your life yet they being taken away from you at this very moment by retailers and you want to criticize Apple when they have done nothing but given you added choice without compromising or taking away others. It's seem as though you are the one who is blind here.
Retailers don't pay extra fees for NFC transactions. They aren't disabling it because of fees. They are disabling it simply because it competes with their own product which is aimed at cutting out credit cards all together. Apple takes a small cut from the CC companies/banks, not from the merchants.
They pay transaction fees for credit cards NFC or not. And regardless they are taking away choice from the consumer I favor of an inferior system aimed at mining your private data and giving you no protections. And since when is competing services a bad thing for a retailer to have when in the end it brings more customers. Oh, when they can't control it and they can't benefit from it more than what they do now.
Because a payment option that it tied to your checking account and uses a QR code is a great payment system.
What ever it is you are smoking, stop it? Maybe you are being sarcastic? I do not want anything tied to my checking account except payroll deposits.
I think he forgot to add </sarcasm> to that post.
"Deep insights into their customers' shopping and buying experiences" is a nice way of glossing over the collecting of buyer data.
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Google Wallet or Apple Pay for me as far as NFC payments go. I have never downloaded Softcard (ISIS) and will never download or use this currentc product. I rebel against losing my choice. Not saying I will only shop places that use NFC but will not be using any competing technology.
Personally this doesn't surprise me about Walmart because they have always done things their way. I would be surprised if Appley Pay takes off if CVS and RiteAid will keep it off there payment systems. With a Walgreens across the street from most I would gladly go there to use Apple pay.
Walmart is or at least thinks they are big enough to influence the "market" on this. I think that if the word gets out about how insecure Current C is and how much data is being mined from it, they will be fighting uphill in a loosing battle. I don't shop at pharmacy's often but RiteAid, CVS, and Walgreens are within a few blocks of each other in my small town. When I need it, Walgreens will be getting my money via Apple Pay.
I'm just curious-- will all CurrenC merchants be blocking NFC payments or will some support CurrenC and NFC? It seems like a very long list of merchants are participating in CurrenC and that doesn't bode well for the future of NFC payments if they all block it.
Well, Home Depot did take it in Saturday. Not sure if they still do, but I will find out Thursday.
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Home Depot is not part of mcx.
It all has to do with corporate greed and we as the consumer suffer yet again. One of the main reasons I would rather spend a few extra bucks and not shop at Walmart.