Comments on: Attack of the iClones: HTC Touch Diamond - Wait-a-Thon!

By: Direktflyg Thailand

Direktflyg Thailand — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 19:19:53 +0000

hello! i am at the job currently so i did not have time to read all of your post, but i do enjoy the stuff i read and i will read a little more at the web site when i get back home.. Got a lot of things to finish here :p do you have a username on myspace? =) Best regards.

By: gambling

gambling — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:16:41 +0000

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By: Jayjaylemony

Jayjaylemony — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:23:02 +0000

Cmaier, I'm back at the stylus issue. Ok, so what if you don't write Chinese? Nobody cares because you're just another dot on the face of existence. I do write Chinese, and I take it rather offensive. Jayjaylemony

By: Jad

Jad — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:19:58 +0000

its funny, this always happens the microsoft beast and its partners ( like HTC ) "copy" ( not really copy as much as just facing the fact that what is out works) the Apple Inc beast and ends up overthrowing it ... face it apple U SUCK

By: Douchey McGee

Douchey McGee — Mon, 12 May 2008 14:50:53 +0000

Weaksauce in my opinion. Can't touch the iPhone.

By: Luca

Luca — Mon, 12 May 2008 11:56:42 +0000

I don't thinks so, its just another generation of Touch devices...

By: Cypy

Cypy — Sun, 11 May 2008 21:44:59 +0000

I'm on the waiting list.

By: topolina

topolina — Sat, 10 May 2008 18:41:27 +0000

Yowzas! Yeah, the clones have got nothing on the iPhone

By: burnsaa

burnsaa — Thu, 08 May 2008 22:50:37 +0000

So really where / when do you guys post wait-a-thon winners its been like 2 months now since you guys started doing this and I've only seen two winners. Just saying maybe you should have the past weeks winner in the wait a thon box on the homepage.

By: marcol

marcol — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:02:12 +0000

I must say, if I look at the weather report on my phone and see a wiper blade, I might smile, even if its going to rain.

Wiper blade was my favourite bit of the demo! Living in England though the attraction might wear a bit thin rather quickly.

By: marcol

marcol — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:58:17 +0000

My point regarding the coming demise of WM has always been that it finally has competition, and that MS has shown absolutely no capacity to deal with competition in the last 5 years or so, and instead has coasted on the intertia of its own market share and technical lock-ins.

WM hasn't really coasted anywhere good in terms of market share in the past few years:

[INDENT]Symbian: Q1 2004 41% Microsoft: Q1 2004 23% PalmSource: Q1 2004 22% RIM: Q1 2004 6%

Symbian: Q4 2007 65% Microsoft: Q4 2007 12% RIM: Q4 2007 11% Apple: Q4 2007 7% Linux: Q4 2007 5%[/INDENT]

http://www.canalys.com/pr/2005/r2005041.htm http://www.canalys.com/pr/2008/r2008021.htm

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:50:36 +0000

What was/is the Danger/Sidekick OS built on?

Like blackberry, Hiptop OS seems to be largely Java.

Surur

By: mobileman

mobileman — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:47:30 +0000

Maybe it would cost them a lot to replicate the functionality of a mature OS, and would lose half the market that made them a $15.7 billion company? Surur

Or maybe their new OS would be so good that it would attract people that will never again use a Windows Mobile device.

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:47:16 +0000

I see you edited your post. Care to add a google stock graph for comparison?

The blue line is Google.

I'm sure HTC would be very flattered to be compared to Google, but actually their stock graph isn't too dissimilar, and in fact HTC seems to have grown faster. Of course one is in Taiwanese dollars and the other in US dollars, but since its relative growth we are talking about that does not really matter.

Surur

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:38:58 +0000

What was/is the Danger/Sidekick OS built on?

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:33:56 +0000

I see you edited your post. Care to add a google stock graph for comparison? ;-)

Nor did I say anything about android being "as functional" as WM. (BTW, I still reject your entire limited view of what contributes to "functionality" and what does not). I was merely speaking about a nice engine on which to build a nice gui. ps: i didn't even mention "android," did I? Android is not the only mobile/cellphone OS that is based on linux.

HTC has said many times they feel better with a strong partner, like MS or Google. As I said, building an a proprietary platform with lead to Palming.

Surur

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:30:49 +0000

WM is serviceable for what it is. My comment on linux is based on the observation that many of the complaints regarding diamond have more to do with the random intrusion of WM gui elements and behaviors into what otherwise seems to be a somewhat promising UI paradigm.

If they wanted to build from scratch they could always use Win CE. My point is that the so called "random intrusion of WM gui" adds value - a Linux device would just be another Samsung Glyde for example - an isolated island with no ecosystem.

As for your specious argument, WM is as bad as I believe, but since the alternatives also suck, WM has done well. If Palm hadn't taken its ball and gone home a few years ago, it might be a different story. My point regarding the coming demise of WM has always been that it finally has competition, and that MS has shown absolutely no capacity to deal with competition in the last 5 years or so, and instead has coasted on the intertia of its own market share and technical lock-ins.

That would make some sense if MS had any most of lock in the market, but seeing how they only have a small percentage market share, heavy competition from giants like Nokia, and have freely licensed the "technical lock-ins" like Exchange Activesync and Playsforsure, you would have to admit that WM has held its own on its own merits. MS has done precious little to push the OS for example.

Surur

By: cmaier

cmaier — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:27:07 +0000

I see you edited your post. Care to add a google stock graph for comparison?

ps: i didn't even mention "android," did I? Android is not the only mobile/cellphone OS that is based on linux.

By: cmaier

cmaier — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:21:15 +0000

Taking their UI concepts, and building a self-consistent design on top of a core like linux might be pretty compelling. The advantages for them of linux over WM are twofold: WM costs them $$, whereas linux is free, and linux has certain technical advantages when it comes to bolting a UI onto it. On the other hand, WM does have certain sdk's that they would have to build from scratch or acquire.

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:08:56 +0000

They could start with linux. They've already put a lot of effort into the UI elements, which is where most of the work would be anyway.

Android? The people who think Android is going to be as functional as WM when it comes out are pretty delusional.

I think its pretty hilarious, considering HTC's growth, that you dont think there is advantages to using WM. If WM was as bad as you believe, HTC would have shut up shop by now, instead of achieving this:

Surur

By: cmaier

cmaier — Thu, 08 May 2008 10:55:54 +0000

They could start with linux. They've already put a lot of effort into the UI elements, which is where most of the work would be anyway.

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 10:48:28 +0000

I love this quote from his report........ "This is, without a doubt, the most un-Windows Mobile-like Windows Mobile interface we�ve ever seen, and that�s a good thing. " Again, why put fancy window dressing on a bad OS. HTC should just create their own.

Maybe it would cost them a lot to replicate the functionality of a mature OS, and would lose half the market that made them a $15.7 billion company?

Surur

By: mobileman

mobileman — Thu, 08 May 2008 10:36:31 +0000

And he followed up, on review, with a more considered opinion. Also he does not understand the gesture system. Surur

I love this quote from his report........

"This is, without a doubt, the most un-Windows Mobile-like Windows Mobile interface we�ve ever seen, and that�s a good thing. "

Again, why put fancy window dressing on a bad OS. HTC should just create their own.

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 10:26:09 +0000

Ofcourse the link you posted, is not the one I originally did. My link was this http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/06/htc-touch-diamond-hands-on/ Again, for the second time, he said this in the above link............ "After today�s press event we got a chance to spend a bit of quality time with HTC�s new Touch Diamond. While we were admittedly playing with a pre-production unit, we came away slightly�unimpressed."

And he followed up, on review, with a more considered opinion. Also he does not understand the gesture system.

Surur

By: mobileman

mobileman — Thu, 08 May 2008 10:22:31 +0000

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/06/htc-world-press-event-wrap-up/ Do all iPhoneys have reading comprehension problems? Surur

Ofcourse the link you posted, is not the one I originally did. My link was this http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/06/htc-touch-diamond-hands-on/

Again, for the second time, he said this in the above link............

"After today�s press event we got a chance to spend a bit of quality time with HTC�s new Touch Diamond. While we were admittedly playing with a pre-production unit, we came away slightly�unimpressed."

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 10:17:07 +0000

Where does Danger now fit into Windows Mobile's development?

A consumer version of WM?

Redmond, Wash � April 15, 2008 � Microsoft Corp. has completed its acquisition of Danger, Inc., the company announced today. Danger's expertise in building great, intuitive client software for mobile handsets connected to powerful hosted back-end services fosters rich consumer experiences in communication, media sharing, entertainment and personalization. The combined force of Danger and Microsoft strengthens the company's ability to provide innovative mobile experiences to more consumers. Danger will become a part of the new Premium Mobile Experiences (PMX) team, a group within the Mobile Communications Business (MCB) of the Entertainment and Devices Division at Microsoft. The PMX team focuses on consumer-facing mobile projects and is led by Roz Ho, corporate vice president of Premium Mobile Experiences, reporting to Andy Lees, senior vice president of the MCB. Danger co-founders Matt Hershenson and Joe Britt will join the new organization, reporting directly to Ho. "We imagine a mobile experience that embraces sharing and celebrating relationships and personal moments," Ho said. "Combining Danger and Microsoft talents together in the Premium Mobile Experiences team is how we're going to deliver cool, new, fun mobile experiences to consumers. We want people to smile every time they look at their phone." The Danger mobile Internet platform, which connects people to their social circles and other rich content, is an integrated end-to-end solution that enables people to interact with their friends, social communities and content through the Internet and Internet services. "At Danger, we created a fun and easy-to-use mobile experience for today's Internet-savvy consumer," Britt said. Hershenson added, "As we combine our team and technologies with Microsoft, we see a clear path to evolving that experience and delivering it to an even broader group of consumers."

http://www.danger.com/press/pr.php?cat=2008&id=20080415

I must say, if I look at the weather report on my phone and see a wiper blade, I might smile, even if its going to rain.

Surur

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Thu, 08 May 2008 10:13:52 +0000

Where does Danger now fit into Windows Mobile's development?

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 10:13:18 +0000

Actually, BGR said he was uimpressed by the diamond.

It�s been quite a day here in London with HTC rolling out the red carpet treatment in recognition of the launch of their new Touch Diamond handset. We�ll certainly be the first to admit that we were a bit underwhelmed by the Touch Diamond announcement when it first hit. The phone has been circulating the web for a week or two now, and we were really hoping that the company would announce a full line of handsets, including the rumored Raphael with a full QWERTY keyboard. While we would still like to have seen a bit more from the Taiwanese company today, upon reflection, we think that the launch is certainly deserving of merit and accolade. . . . Again, we would have loved to see more new stuff today � Android, Raphael, etc, but we�re confident that HTC is making some pretty good moves and laying a solid foundation for their future product lines. Was the event today worthy of the hype? Maybe not, but it�s by no means the misstep we initially thought it to be.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/06/htc-world-press-event-wrap-up/

Do all iPhoneys have reading comprehension problems?

Surur

By: GFONG

GFONG — Thu, 08 May 2008 09:25:40 +0000

Interesting article.

http://www.jeffkirvin.net/2008/05/07/htc-diamond-is-fatally-flawed/

By: GFONG

GFONG — Thu, 08 May 2008 09:21:31 +0000

BTW, do people realize the UI of the phone is consistent with MS's plans for WM 7, ie the so-called Twist UI, where you navigate side to side and up and down? Its a further advancement on the UI of the T-Mobile Shadow and the WM 6.1 standard UI. Its designed for greater discoverability of features, which is rather nice. Surur

I watched the video of the WM7 interface. It sucks. As usual, MS likes to make the thing complicated.

By: mobileman

mobileman — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:53:59 +0000

BG was just disappointed because he expected more devices, not just the one. Secondly,Kirvin did not actually have his hands on the device of course, or even see it himself. However there is no denying the device has it flaws, but you are not actually implying your god iPhone is perfect, are you? Surur

Actually, BGR said he was uimpressed by the diamond.

No, I dont think the iPhone is perfect.

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:44:06 +0000

Its designed for greater discoverability of features, which is rather nice.

Surur

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:40:44 +0000

He still did not seem to like it very much. Touchflo is neat, but it really is just Windows Mobile with a new coat of paint. Here is another not so great hands on....... http://www.jeffkirvin.net/2008/05/07/htc-diamond-is-fatally-flawed/

BG was just disappointed because he expected more devices, not just the one.

Secondly,Kirvin did not actually have his hands on the device of course, or even see it himself. However there is no denying the device has it flaws, but you are not actually implying your god iPhone is perfect, are you?

Surur

By: mobileman

mobileman — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:29:05 +0000

Or http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/06/htc-world-press-event-wrap-up/ Surur

He still did not seem to like it very much. Touchflo is neat, but it really is just Windows Mobile with a new coat of paint.

Here is another not so great hands on....... http://www.jeffkirvin.net/2008/05/07/htc-diamond-is-fatally-flawed/

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:24:08 +0000

And the same can be said for WM devices. Correct?

Of course. If you look at the numbers, rather than the media coverage, everyone wants a Nokia.

Surur

By: gadgetluva

gadgetluva — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:20:51 +0000

Perhaps, but which devices? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have compared the iPhone with a Treo/Blackjack type device. I've only watched one video once of the HTC Diamond, but a lot of what you like - simple dialling or Google search from the home screen etc - seems to be absent, not least because there's no permanently exposed keyboard (no physical keyboard at all). I'd be tempted to say this is HTC's play for the iPhone, multimedia space, but it seems crippled as a multimedia device by low storage capacity and a very small battery.

Sorry, I was referring to general WM6 devices. I did mention "blackjack" at one time in my post but didn't really focus on it. The Diamond is, as Rene puts it, an iClone. Nice to play with and look at, but when it comes down to it, not as useable as a Blackjack or Treo.

By: gadgetluva

gadgetluva — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:18:53 +0000

Don't look now, but HTC has practically killed the Today screen that you are raving about. There's nowhere to put your Google search bar unless you disable the HTC Today app which is kind of defeating the purpose.

I'm not talking about the Diamond right now, I'm talking about the standard WM6 OS. I should have been more clear.

I hope that not every manufacturer decides to make devices that mimic the iPhone...like I said, the iPhone is the master of flashy, easy to use, multimedia orientated smartphones, but not one at all for productivity. As I've stated many times before, I'll get an iPhone once it gets 3G and GPS and native tasks (I can do without native tasks as long as a company like DeveloperOne comes out with something I can have a To Do list). Everyone praises the iPhone for what it has, but not enough is said about what it lacks.

By: JGold

JGold — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:06:51 +0000

There is still a today screen, because there is still a today item on the start menu. HTC ensured the preeminence of their interface by using a Home button, which would take you to their TouchFlo interface.

That may be true. However, the "convenience" as mentioned by gadgetluva is no longer a plus since now you need to "go to" the today screen as an extra step, just like you need to launch a browser on the iPhone which brings you the ability to Google search.

The world is not black and white people, and not everyone wants an iPhone.

And the same can be said for WM devices. Correct?

By: surur

surur — Thu, 08 May 2008 07:44:24 +0000

WM is all about flexibility - the first WM devices did not have keyboards, just like Palm PDA's did not have keyboards. Things have evolved since them, but saying WM is only useful when tied to a keyboard does it a disservice.

The reason all these companies make WM devices (and they are not all iPhone clones - about every form factor under the sun exists in WM) is that its a mature OS with good hardware support, with many built-in features, its cheaper than developing their own OS, is already supported by the carriers and it sells well.

The world is not black and white people, and not everyone wants an iPhone.

Surur

By: marcol

marcol — Thu, 08 May 2008 07:12:57 +0000

There's nowhere to put your Google search bar unless you disable the HTC Today app which is kind of defeating the purpose.

Thanks. I thought that might be the case, but didn't like to say because I wasn't too sure from the video I watched. Add in the absence of a keyboard and this is about as un-Treo-like as you can get. Given that it's also very limited as a multimedia device, that doesn't leave much at which it actually excels (web browsing perhaps, although the screen is isn't the biggest). Jack of all trades I guess.

By: JGold

JGold — Thu, 08 May 2008 07:05:47 +0000

My favorite thing about WM6 is the homescreens.

By: marcol

marcol — Thu, 08 May 2008 06:56:31 +0000

There you have it folks, a reasonable comparison of the strengths of each device (IMO).

By: bennysangel

bennysangel — Thu, 08 May 2008 06:53:04 +0000

lots of flaming in here, good read for my long train ride to work. Anyways, the hardcore fanboys of each side (surur and rene, i'm looking your way...) are quite ridiculous. There are things that WM and iPhone do well and things they aren't so good at. iPhone is great at multimedia, internet, and looking cool. Wm6 is great at productivity, efficiency of tasks, and customizability. My favorite thing about WM6 is the homescreens. Nobody else has come close to offering the power, customizability, and useability of the WM6 Today/home screen. Being able to do a Google Search, seeing my tasks/calendar, being able to dial directly from the homescreen, and launching programs from one central area is just so powerful, useful, and efficient. Also, having a big digital clock is something that I require that is right there as well. iPhone fanboys, you can argue this asmuch as you want, but the truth remains that for efficiency of tasks (search, PIM, dialing) and display of important information, the iPhone gets beat hands down. Just having google search on my homescreen is enough. The phone is already ringing for restaurants I looked up on my blackjack using google (or even live search) from my homescreen in the time it takes iPhone to load Google. My favorite thing about iPhone is the user interface. It just works, its quick, and it truly was revolutionary. This is also true of Safari...I don't even have to explain why Safari is better (besides currently being stuck on EDGE, having wifi is moot...but 3G will change all of that). WM users can try to copy the interface as much as they want, but in the end, it falls way short of the "just works intuitively" design that is iPhone. Yes, WM is arguably more powerful (in breadth of applications available, particularly for business users) and definitely more customizable (so far) but at the cost of useability to the average consumer. There you have it folks, a reasonable comparison of the strengths of each device (IMO).

I agree with you. That is why I like WM, yes it is the worst, but like you said I love to be productive, I need my task management, and I am software junky. You cant get that with any other OS.

By: gadgetluva

gadgetluva — Thu, 08 May 2008 06:31:18 +0000

My favorite thing about WM6 is the homescreens. Nobody else has come close to offering the power, customizability, and useability of the WM6 Today/home screen. Being able to do a Google Search, seeing my tasks/calendar, being able to dial directly from the homescreen, and launching programs from one central area is just so powerful, useful, and efficient. Also, having a big digital clock is something that I require that is right there as well. iPhone fanboys, you can argue this asmuch as you want, but the truth remains that for efficiency of tasks (search, PIM, dialing) and display of important information, the iPhone gets beat hands down. Just having google search on my homescreen is enough. The phone is already ringing for restaurants I looked up on my blackjack using google (or even live search) from my homescreen in the time it takes iPhone to load Google.

My favorite thing about iPhone is the user interface. It just works, its quick, and it truly was revolutionary. This is also true of Safari...I don't even have to explain why Safari is better (besides currently being stuck on EDGE, having wifi is moot...but 3G will change all of that). WM users can try to copy the interface as much as they want, but in the end, it falls way short of the "just works intuitively" design that is iPhone. Yes, WM is arguably more powerful (in breadth of applications available, particularly for business users) and definitely more customizable (so far) but at the cost of useability to the average consumer.

There you have it folks, a reasonable comparison of the strengths of each device (IMO).

By: Bad Ash

Bad Ash — Thu, 08 May 2008 06:24:45 +0000

Someone just kill this thread already...

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Thu, 08 May 2008 05:47:34 +0000

It's incredible, and disheartening, to see such a backlash against WinMob 6.1 from reviewers and especially manufacturers. This isn't the ancient Garnet (which I don't think has an end-to-end skin like TouchFLO available?), but a new, just-shipping OS update.

Is this a problem with how Microsoft positioned their current-gen UI? Or is this flaky manufacturers who, rather than deploy WinMob phones, think they need another iClone and will cram whatever they have to onto poor WinMob to achieve it?

By: marcol

marcol — Thu, 08 May 2008 05:32:53 +0000

A view that's a bit less schizophrenic than BGR's:

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/reviews/review.phtml/3120/4144/htc-diamond-smartphone-first-look.phtml

Conclusion:

Although we weren't able to test every facet of the HTC Diamond (GPS, camera quality) what we saw was very impressive. HTC has somehow managed to take a Microsoft device and make it everything but - a good thing in our mind. This is a consumer smartphone that packs more specs, and if HTC can sort out the lag issue, more punch than the iPhone in all areas. The only thing it appears to be lagging is the audio and video prowess of Apple's smartphone. If you aren't fussed about multimedia and just want to stay connected on the go, this is certainly one to watch. The HTC Diamond is out in June in the UK.

Comparisons to the first gen iPhone rather than the one it will actually be competing with, obviously.

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 23:28:18 +0000

Are you stupid or something. You can write Chinese just fine on the iPhone. It takes 3 minutes to unlock it and install the Chinese pinying input software. I could have written this sentense in Chinese on my iPhone but you won't understand it.

Whatever,

Did I say you cant write Chinese on the iPhone? No.

Did I say it would be easier with a stylus. Yes.

Reading comprehension, whatever, reading comprehension. They teach it in school.

Surur

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 23:25:54 +0000

Here is a report from somebody that spent some hands on time with the device. http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/06/htc-touch-diamond-hands-on/ To sum up......."While we were admittedly playing with a pre-production unit, we came away slightly�unimpressed." Surur, you take this stuff a little to seriously.

The TouchFLO 3D interface is, in a word, amazing. If you thought the original TouchFLO skin was impressive (or even unimpressive) than you�re in for a big surprise here. This is, without a doubt, the most un-Windows Mobile-like Windows Mobile interface we�ve ever seen, and that�s a good thing. The graphics, which rely on their own 3D accelerator chip, are stunning, and the entire user experience is exceptionally well thought through. Hyper-intuitive design is the term than comes to mind, with most every action, from contact scrolling to music selection, thought through from the perspective of a uninformed user. It�s not dumbed down, it�s just simple and straight forward. One of the most impressive features is the way that the browser automatically resizes zoomed chunks of text for easy reading and consumption. Think Mobile Safari, but even more readable. The introduction of the Touch Diamond before the Raphael or Touch Pro Dual also makes sense, as HTC is clearly trying to showcase the innovations they�ve made in the Touch UI arena before moving on to more extensive hardware revisions. That�s not to say we wouldn�t have loved a TyTN III or Mogul II announcement, but when viewed from a marketing and customer orientation perspective, their process starts to make a bit more sense.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/06/htc-world-press-event-wrap-up/

Surur

By: tschertz01

tschertz01 — Wed, 07 May 2008 22:15:08 +0000

So far I'm not impressed by this phone. Now talk amongst yourselves.

By: whatever7

whatever7 — Wed, 07 May 2008 20:13:05 +0000

Why don't you try writing your name with your finger and a pen. The benefits of a stylus should be clear, which is why they were invented thousands of years ago. Finger painting are for children with poor dexterity. You may, but a billion Chinese may not. Surur

BTW too many of your iPhone related posts are straight up trolls. Can you at lease spend 200 bucks amd get a refub iPhone so you can write more accurate trolls? What's the matter you don't have 200 bucks? Or your dignity won't allow you to touch any Apple products?

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 20:03:10 +0000

Given the basic principles of projection, wouldn't that mean Surur really, truly, deeply, surely wants him some hot iPhone action?

By: mobileman

mobileman — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:42:31 +0000

Here is a report from somebody that spent some hands on time with the device. http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/06/htc-touch-diamond-hands-on/

To sum up......."While we were admittedly playing with a pre-production unit, we came away slightly…unimpressed."

Surur, you take this stuff a little to seriously.

By: wesingreen

wesingreen — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:23:16 +0000

Face it - you want one and you know it!

Confirmation, as if it were needed, that you are truly delusional.

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 17:01:10 +0000

You're not listening, Surer, as usual. It wasn't the Diamond that prompted me to post, it was you and your trolling.

While I would love to take credit for bringing you back to smartphoneexperts, I find the coincidence of your return and the launch of the Diamond a bit too much to stomach.

Face it - you want one and you know it!

Surur

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 16:47:14 +0000

The telcos in Canada are remarkably greedy, high prices, low service. New companies came out with per-second billing and unlimited data, and the old guard was forced to match them (or create boutiques to rival them). Then they bought them, and the per-second billing and unlimited data disappeared.

Scary similar to how the Amazon MP3 situation may play out, and the concessions already wrung from MS...

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 16:44:19 +0000

cmaier has found scary truths:

http://weblog.raganwald.com/2008/05/why-apple-is-more-expensive-than-amazon.html

http://gizmodo.com/388219/microsoft-developing-copyright-filter-for-zune-will-block-pirated-content

By: cmaier

cmaier — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:51:36 +0000

I think I'd have buyer's remorse if I bought an expensive phone that refused to play videos I recorded myself unless I got permission from NBC.

By: wesingreen

wesingreen — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:31:57 +0000

So the HTC Diamond shattered your 8 month slumber? Shocked you no longer have the prettiest phone (you never really had a very functional one, did you?) Feeling your EDGE only GPS less phone is a bit obsolete. Maybe feeling you even overpaid a bit, maybe even way overpaid? At least you can make your own ringtones now though... Right? Surur

You're not listening, Surer, as usual. It wasn't the Diamond that prompted me to post, it was you and your trolling.

You think I'm having buyer's remorse about the iPhone? Give me a break.

By: cmaier

cmaier — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:10:25 +0000

Hey, surur, as the official MS spokesperson around here, what's with these articles saying MS is going to build piracy filters in to zune and mobile devices to prevent me from listening to my unapproved mp3's? That doesn't seem very neighborly of them.

Updated: i guess unapproved mp3's are ok, but not unapproved videos.

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:08:53 +0000

Surur,

Do you think the HTC Touch Diamond will sell more units in Europe by this time next year than the iPhone 3G?

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:00:58 +0000

Actually, Surer, you're the one who's been running around trolling about the iPhone for the past 18 months on just about any forum which which will give you a voice. Actually, the only reason I even posted here was that I wanted you to waste a bit more of your time, as that seems to be the only defense against a troll. It's my first time posting here, and the reason I have stayed away previously is that almost any thread is immediately hijacked by you and your anti-iphone rants. The only reason I referenced the Diamond and pointed to those videos was to show how uncritically accepting you are of anything that can potentially be used to attack the iPhone. "Pre-production" units. Yeah, right.

At least you can make your own ringtones now though... Right?

Surur

By: wesingreen

wesingreen — Wed, 07 May 2008 14:32:35 +0000

Actually, Surer, you're the one who's been running around trolling about the iPhone for the past 18 months on just about any forum which which will give you a voice.

Actually, the only reason I even posted here was that I wanted you to waste a bit more of your time, as that seems to be the only defense against a troll.

It's my first time posting here, and the reason I have stayed away previously is that almost any thread is immediately hijacked by you and your anti-iphone rants.

The only reason I referenced the Diamond and pointed to those videos was to show how uncritically accepting you are of anything that can potentially be used to attack the iPhone.

"Pre-production" units. Yeah, right.

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 13:46:33 +0000

Those are obviously preproduction units, but they have scared Rene enough to put up this post, and you two to argue about it.

The iPhone has failed in Europe, this device wont.

Surur

By: wesingreen

wesingreen — Wed, 07 May 2008 13:27:27 +0000

I guess what I really dislike about the Diamond is that it's a dishonest product. It's trying to kid consumers that they're getting something which rivals the iPhone in terms of user experience, and it does it by hiding away an operating system that most consumers have rejected - namely, Windows Mobile.

It reminds me of a used care salesman in a cheap suit.

By: wesingreen

wesingreen — Wed, 07 May 2008 13:01:47 +0000

I love the shock in the reporter's voice as they stumble upon the Windows Mobile Start menu in this hands on video from the launch:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=htc%20diamond%20hands%20on&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv

Note how many times the Diamond fails to respond to the demonstrator's touch or doesn't react smoothly, look at how the web-broswser zooms in but fails to fit the text on the screen properly, and revel in the inconsistency of the UI as you move from app to app.

Half-baked.

By: wesingreen

wesingreen — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:48:29 +0000

I love the way you always dodge the real issues, Surer. How many iPhones do you think Apple would have sold had it been available in 50 countries and every carrier under the sun?

Face it. The Touch was a mediocre product and sold in mediocre numbers. This new effort, the Diamond, looks a little prettier and has a few more bells and whistles, but it's still a cobbled together compromise, a glossy package hiding the hideous truth within: Windows Mobile 6. It still doesn't work that well, as HTC's own video of the laggy interface reveals.

By: mobileman

mobileman — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:43:58 +0000

That must be why Apple had to give up pushing their $500 unsubsidised locked phones - the huge success. The suckers are the ones who bought iPhone Obsolete at $$499 when cheap, subsidised iPhones were just months away. Do you think AT&T will be kind enough to give you a $200 rebate too, like Apple was forced to do their gift card?

I guess I'm a sucker. I have been using and loving my iPhone for almost a year now (a record for me).

By: mobileman

mobileman — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:41:42 +0000

Is there a keyboard on this ultra-expensive device? I dont think I would want to use a soft keyboard with a 2.8 screen.

HTC basically has made a pretty overlay for windows mobile. The problem ofcourse is what happens when you open up a 3rd party app. Back to the ugly.

HTC should just make their own OS.

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 11:21:16 +0000

Surer wrote: "HTC sold 3 million Touches, and expect to sell many millions of Diamonds. At which point will you say the iPhone has been challenged?" Answer: When they can sell that many in just 5 countries not 50, and when they can sell Touches for $499 + a two year lock-in, not give them away with a free pair of wireless headphones, as they did in the UK. Apple has sold nearly twice as many iPhones in a shorter period, in just 5 countries and 5 carriers. Compared to the iPhone, the original Touch was a flop. However, I'm sure that HTC will also manage to offload a few million Diamond's to the same suckers who bought the last version.

That must be why Apple had to give up pushing their $500 unsubsidised locked phones - the huge success.

The suckers are the ones who bought iPhone Obsolete at $$499 when cheap, subsidised iPhones were just months away.

Do you think AT&T will be kind enough to give you a $200 rebate too, like Apple was forced to do their gift card?

By: marcol

marcol — Wed, 07 May 2008 11:11:03 +0000

Who knows.... They did not say ;) It may be perfectly legal in China.

Criminals:

SurfTheChannel is a simple resource site. All content visible on this site is located at 3rd party websites. SurfTheChannel is not responsible for any content linked to or referred from these pages. SurfTheChannel does not host any content on it's Servers All video links point to content hosted on third party webites. Users who upload to these websites agree not to upload illegal content when creating their user accounts. SurfTheChannel does not accept responsibility for content hosted on third party websites.

... but nice ones:

We made the site for fun not for profit. If you would like to make a donation then please make it to Cancer Research UK as they are a very worthwhile charity. We must stress however that we are in no way affiliated with Cancer Reseach UK, we just think they do good work and need the cash.

By: wesingreen

wesingreen — Wed, 07 May 2008 11:10:52 +0000

Surer wrote: "HTC sold 3 million Touches, and expect to sell many millions of Diamonds. At which point will you say the iPhone has been challenged?"

Answer: When they can sell that many in just 5 countries not 50, and when they can sell Touches for $499 + a two year lock-in, not give them away with a free pair of wireless headphones, as they did in the UK.

Apple has sold nearly twice as many iPhones in a shorter period, in just 5 countries and 5 carriers.

Compared to the iPhone, the original Touch was a flop. However, I'm sure that HTC will also manage to offload a few million Diamond's to the same suckers who bought the last version.

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 11:04:51 +0000

Illegally, I presume.

Who knows.... They did not say It may be perfectly legal in China.

Surur

By: marcol

marcol — Wed, 07 May 2008 11:02:22 +0000

But they are.

Illegally, I presume.

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:53:31 +0000

But they are.

http://www.surfthechannel.com/

Surur

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:52:28 +0000

Is Hulu available in the UK? We're IP blocked here in Canada. If Flash becomes the new DRM platform for the virtual streaming Hulu set, I will become even less impressed with it. (BTW- QT ion MobileSafari plays audio and video very well. I often click on Twitter links to listen or watch a podcast...)

Yes, plenty of Quicktime content on the internet, isn't there. Not like flash or anything...

Surur

By: marcol

marcol — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:51:39 +0000

Is Hulu available in the UK?

Sorry, currently our video library can only be streamed from within the United States Hulu is committed to making its content available worldwide. To do so, we must work through a number of legal and business issues, including obtaining international streaming rights. Know that we are working to make this happen and will continue to do so. Given the international background of the Hulu team, we have both a professional and personal interest in bringing Hulu to a global audience. If you'd like, please leave us your email address and the region in which you live, and we will email you when our videos are available in your area.

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:45:22 +0000

Is Hulu available in the UK? We're IP blocked here in Canada.

If Flash becomes the new DRM platform for the virtual streaming Hulu set, I will become even less impressed with it.

(BTW- QT ion MobileSafari plays audio and video very well. I often click on Twitter links to listen or watch a podcast...)

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:30:27 +0000

flashlite != ecosystem[/URL]

When you are talking about Hulu it does.

Any way, thats a pretty FUD article, written from the perspective that Apple controls the mobile internet. In truth its still early days yet, and if I can get a flash player that can play yahoo music and video in browser, as I can on my desktop, I would be pretty happy.

Surur

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:28:06 +0000

flashlite != ecosystem

(Here's some bonus stuff on Flash in general, not all of which I think is/will be the case, but much of which is often overlooked by the OMGZflashVIDZ!1 crowd... http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/05/07/flashwarsadobefightsforairwiththeopenscreenprojectpart3of3.html

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:13:38 +0000

iPhone 3G might also have a *slight* edge in media ecosystem...

Only the smaller legal one, and if this phone comes with flash lite (as suggested) then not even there.

Surur

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:12:43 +0000

How are they getting better life at 900 than at 1120? OS management? Hardware side mojo?

Do you remember those new lower-power 3G chipsets Apple was waiting for? Did you think only Apple would get to use them?

Surur

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:08:25 +0000

iPhone 3G might also have a slight edge in media ecosystem...

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:07:33 +0000

How are they getting better life at 900 than at 1120? OS management? Hardware side mojo?

By: cmaier

cmaier — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:00:46 +0000

It doesn't need a stylus

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 09:55:09 +0000

I have the follow questions hope that someone can explain to me: Why you guy are so excited about the Diamond. Does it have anthying really innovative in hardware side which we can't find in any device? (LG KS20 has the similar look and feels.)

VGA screen, touch sensitive d-pad, accelerometer, and common things like GPS and FM radio.

Does it have any killer app? (TouchFLO is a joke. I don't want to use my dirty hand to touch the screen then put the screen on my face or vice verse.)

If Touchflo 3D does not do it for you, its certainly not the device for you.

How is the battery life? How is the performance? (From my experience, the performance of most HTC devices are slower than the similar specification devices.)

We'll have to see. The graphics accelerator will certainly help with playing videos or DirectX games for example. About battery life, the Touch Dual with a 1120 mAh battery seems to score poorer when it comes to most talk and standby time than the 900 mAh Diamond

Touch Diamond Capacity: 900 mAh

Talk time: Up to 270 minutes for WCDMA Up to 330 minutes for GSM

Standby time: Up to 396 hours for WCDMA Up to 285 hours for GSM Video call time: Up to 2.41 hours for WCDMA (The above are subject to network and phone usage.)

Touch Dual Battery 1,120 mAh rechargeable Li-polymer battery

Talk time: Up to 180 minutes for UMTS Up to 300 minutes for GSM

Standby time: Up to 250 hours for UMTS Up to 180 hours for GSM Up to 1.78 hours for video call

And people have not been complaining about the battery life of the Touch Dual.

Lastly, for those who said Diamond is good, I would like to know how many of you will buy it at this price point?

It does not meet my needs, I need a keyboard, but I may get it for my wife, who's ancient iPaq 6915 is close to death.

I was reading about this device yesterday an until I was about half way through the spec sheet I was impressed. Running winmo is a huge drawback as is the limited storage, the crappy touchscreen and the small battery to name a few. For me this isnt the right device, though I'm sure some longtime winmo users will love it. What I don't see this device doing is challenging the iPhone's dominance as an advanced phone for the everyday user.

HTC sold 3 million Touches, and expect to sell many millions of Diamonds. At which point will you say the iPhone has been challenged?

Everyone is playing catchup while apple is readying their next release... Where haven seen this before... Hmmmm... Oh ya it was MS trying to catch up to Mac OS 10.2 while apple was releasing 10.5 and what was the OS X killer MS had? Vista, and we all know how well that has been received.

In which way exactly do you expect the iPhone 2 to exceed this device (except storage obviously)?

Surur

By: AnteL0pe

AnteL0pe — Wed, 07 May 2008 09:32:17 +0000

What I don't see this device doing is challenging the iPhone's dominance as an advanced phone for the everyday user.

By: GFONG

GFONG — Wed, 07 May 2008 09:28:47 +0000

I have the follow questions hope that someone can explain to me:

Why you guy are so excited about the Diamond. Does it have anthying really innovative in hardware side which we can't find in any device? (LG KS20 has the similar look and feels.)

Does it have any killer app? (TouchFLO is a joke. I don't want to use my dirty hand to touch the screen then put the screen on my face or vice verse.)

How is the battery life? How is the performance? (From my experience, the performance of most HTC devices are slower than the similar specification devices.)

Lastly, for those who said Diamond is good, I would like to know how many of you will buy it at this price point?

By: WatersWest

WatersWest — Wed, 07 May 2008 09:15:31 +0000

Looks like a heckuva device. However, the main advantage for WinMob for me was always Exchange ActiveSync. Now that it is coming to iPhone, no real need to stick with WinMob and ALSO have to carry a separate iPod.

By: cmaier

cmaier — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:52:08 +0000

someone should put accelerometers in a stylus. Probably need a tether. Wii in your pocket.

By: Dyvim

Dyvim — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:51:54 +0000

The Touch looks like a nice device but for me just has one thing holding it back: the OS. I'm so over WM for the time being. Maybe in a year or two I'll come back to the fold. HTC has tried to imitate the iPhone's interface, but did you watch in the video when they're swiping photos and other things? There's a delay and then the item moves after the swipe is complete. I love how on the iPhone, the photo (or album cover or weather page or whatever) starts to move almost as soon as I start the swipe and sticks to my finger tip if I decide to switch directions. It's as if I'm really swiping an actual sheet or card out of the way.

I love the weather applet on the Touch though. That's some serious eye candy. They one-upped the iPhone on that for sure.

But the pseudo-cover flow where you flip through the album covers one at a time by pressing next (and which shows the next couple albums but not the one you just flipped past) looked pretty lame IMO.

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:43:42 +0000

@Surur: Does the stylus itself have any special tech in it (the way, say, Wacom's do), or is the device doing the heavy lifting?

I'm sure its the device which detects the removal of the stylus. Its probably just a tiny micro-switch, but its nice of them to add it.

Surur

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:38:27 +0000

@Surur:

Does the stylus itself have any special tech in it (the way, say, Wacom's do), or is the device doing the heavy lifting?

By: cmaier

cmaier — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:36:37 +0000

cool indeed

By: Cool Cat

Cool Cat — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:35:32 +0000

iPhone rules, iclones drool!

By: surur

surur — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:30:40 +0000

The stylus is actually pretty cool on this device - if you remove it it unlocks the phone, and if you remove it during a phone call the note app automatically opens.

Surur

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:30:07 +0000

@Bad Ash:

Threads where you post could win you $100 from iTunes?

By: marcol

marcol — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:25:10 +0000

Want to do anything more than the slicken-ing veneer allows, however, want to tweak a setting to access the fabled power of the platform, and its straight back to Windows Mobile 6.1.

Don't worry, the battery will run out before you get that far.

By: Bad Ash

Bad Ash — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:22:40 +0000

I just love threads like this....

By: Rene Ritchie

Rene Ritchie — Wed, 07 May 2008 08:19:26 +0000

@Cmaeir,

No Amazon MP3 for us in Canada yet. (Not official iPhone either, of course... But taxes? We got tons of those!)